Talking Ripple - Armchair Developer's Debate

Tyler.Durden wrote on 9/24/2002, 8:48 AM
Hi All,

Since ripple-mode is often maligned, possibly misunderstood and can be damned complex; perhaps it would be helpful to discuss how ripple currently works, what folks expect of ripple-mode and how we would like it to function. This is not intended as a rant or solution; but rather, a long-winded way to share some observations on the subject.


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Veterans are aware there are currently no drag-ripple functions. New users are advised that they may need to select events they wish to move to accompany a drag-trim in the timeline, and move them manually or as a group.

I have found that ripple will insert a group of events that span tracks, by placing the highest event of the copied group on the last track selected prior to pasting. This makes sense to me, as I can then direct Vegas to paste a group spanning tracks to specfic tracks. What it *doesn't* do however, is ripple all selected events in the same fashion as a single event will, unless all tracks are pasted into.

I have found that if I have a group spanning tracks and insert an event into one of the tracks containing the group (not into the group, but somewhere ahead of the group), it will split and ripple all the tracks containing the grouped events *at the insert point*. This might suprise a user more were it not for the split occurring at the visible point. It might be more appropriate to have just the grouped events move... but bear in mind, they may be out of view at that time.


This next point requires examples (below): When pasting a group of events spanning tracks, the event of the longest duration determines the duration of the ripple and the inpoint:

A short event in the top-track grouped with a longer event in the second-track that begins earlier, will paste-in beginning at the inpoint of the longer event, even if the top track is selected for the insert.

Track1: __1111__
Track2: 22222222

pastes *onto*

Track1: AAAAA
Track2: BBBBB

to create:

Track1: AAAA__1111__
Track2: BBBB22222222 (even if track 1 was selected for the insert)

or pasted *into* creates:

Track1: AA__1111__AA
Track2: BB22222222BB

it does not create:

Track1: AA1111__AA
Track2: 22222222BBBB
(or other variations involving different durations on tracks)




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Workable Method?

For those currently experimenting with methods of ripple-all on insert/paste, here's a method to try, and comment on:

Park TL-cursor at insert-point and Ctrl-A to select-all
S and G to split and group
Paste event and all events later than the insert will move, despite the grouping of earlier events. (Markers do not move.)
Ctrl-A to select-all, U to ungroup.

The above method splits overhangs. To opt-out of splitting overhangs, lock overhanging events before splitting, and unlock to move them if desired.

Anybody doing it this way? Anybody like it, or like something better?



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Currently, I experience ripple as an "Opt-In" function: I see events move in the specific track where the paste/insert takes place. If I want other elements in other tracks to move I have to "opt-in" and tell Vegas which additional events I want to move (by selecting and sometimes grouping).

Some other systems I have used I have experienced ripple as an "Opt-Out" function: I see *all* events with the outpoint later than the insert-point moving, unless I lock them in some fashion to prevent it. Some other systems do the same but also split events that overhang the insert-point.

I'm wondering, since the amount of questions on ripple and the debates regarding "fixing it"; do most folks expect ripple to be the "opt-out" method? Would this be preferable and why (or why not)?


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I hope this helps newbies on what currently to expect... anyone can/should experiment to see ripple behavior in action and hopefully know what will happen before using the feature at "crunch-time". I also hope veterans will share thoughts on the above and any other ripple aspects.


Regards, MPH


Comments

vicmilt wrote on 9/24/2002, 9:32 PM
I've been editing for twenty years and stil hate ripple edits. No matter how hard you try, you always find SOMETHING out of sync 5 minutes downstream.
And you generally don't find it for two or three days, when you've completely forgotten what you changed.

Here's how I handle it.
1. Before I ever do a ripple I save a new version with a higher number and an indication of what I just did (Edwards 45 - add car scene)
2. I insert blank time to more than cover the new scene. If the new scene is 15 seconds, I insert 20.
3. Once all is in place, I delete the extra time.
4. If I find a dramatically "out of sync" area, days later, I return to my earlier saved piece and copy and paste the sync-ed elements back into the current version.

This is not a very elegant way to work, but it's safe and it works.

v.
salad wrote on 9/25/2002, 8:35 AM
I don't have enough experience with using RIPPLE EDIT, though I'm picking up some good tips on it's behavior here in the forum. Anything the Pro's here have to say about improvements/changes or no changes...will probably be fine with me. I'll learn it...get used to it, and prob learn to like it. Right now, I try to avoid it except for "playing" with it.
Multiple tracks and ripple edits......scares me because, again, I'm not confident about it's behavior due to lack of repetitive use of it.
I think it would be nice to have a "tool" to select for the(opt-out)dragging edges and have the rest of the events follow. Deselect the tool, but still have SoFo's Ripple Edit default feature to play with(enabled/disabled). Just a thought. I'm using premiere's(5.0)ripple edit as a comparison.

thanks MPH