That Dirty Little Font

BriceWilliams2 wrote on 3/12/2009, 2:49 PM
I can't seem to get a clean font. I have tried various settings and renderings all leaving a less then desirable result. I am trying to make small menu rendered mpeg progressive 9.6 mbs (constant bit rate) in vegas. Using the looped video for DVD menu in DVD 4.0 Arch. The fonts seem to have jagged edges (when large italic fonts are used) and artifacts surrounding the fonts (Noticeable with solid color back drop). Any suggestions?

Comments

reberclark wrote on 3/12/2009, 2:55 PM
The color for the text will affect the outcome. Red can be a real difficult one. I usually stick with yellow outlined in black or white outlined in black. Serif fonts also are prone to more jaggies than sans-serif.
John Gordon wrote on 3/12/2009, 3:01 PM
up the resolution of the text elements. I create my text elements at 1440x960 (twice dv reolution). Avoid super bright colors.

John
rs170a wrote on 3/12/2009, 3:25 PM
...rendered mpeg progressive 9.6 mbs (constant bit rate) in vegas...

That's far too high and could be a part of your problem.
Drop it down to 8 MB.
Check out Great Titles with the DV codec as it's an excellent article on the issue.

Mike
BriceWilliams2 wrote on 3/12/2009, 8:05 PM
I was considering that having such a high render could cause font to be too sharp and show every flaw. thanks for suggestions, i will experiment with resolution and bitrate.
busterkeaton wrote on 3/12/2009, 9:05 PM
What fonts are you using. Some fonts simply don't work well for video.
farss wrote on 3/13/2009, 1:05 AM
Bitrate has zero effect on resolution, period.
What effects how graphics look are chroma sampling, anti-aliasing and how you're DVD player is connected to your TV.
You cannot do much about the chroma sampling as DVDs always use 4:2:0 however rendering to the Sony YUV codec instead of the DV codec would help avoid going through NTSC's DV sampling of 4:1:1 and then to mpeg-2's 4:2:0 that's for sure.
Vegas does not do too good a job on the AA front with text. As suggested creating it at a higher res and downscaling from that can help.
If you TV is connected to your DVD player by composite (single wire with yellow RCA plugs for the video) the the very limited chroma bandwidth can play havoc with sharp transitions in colour and levels. Avoid adjoing colors from opposite side of the color wheel e,.g red text on a blue background. Keep levels legal, black at 16,16,16 and white at 235, 235, 235. Adding a small outline or glow at halfway between the character and the background may help e.g. for white text on a black background add glow at 50% grey, that's 128,128,128.

Hope that helps. Oh and yes, avoid text with fine horizontal lines.

Bob.
BriceWilliams2 wrote on 3/13/2009, 7:11 AM
All very helpful. I am reading through Vasst The Full HD, it has given me some insight into the wonderful world of color spacing and bit depth. For the most part my fonts have been acceptable on phosphorus TV. I have been using Sony XBR series 42" for preview with Sony BDP-S550 1080p (connection is hdmi cable). Now the scrutiny begins. I am find myself inches away from screen looking for imperfections. Perfection is a curse, slowly leading to obsession.

Just about any font i have used placed over a HD backdrop (purchased through third party) will show blurred gray blotches surrounding the font.

After watching crisp clear fonts on HD Sony XBR broadcast TV, then viewing DVD Arch's standard fonts (arial font) looking less then desirable for a menu I started to work in Vegas 7. Vegas certainly gives more control when creating menus, but the main reason for the switch is quality.

I will try your suggestions this weekend, and thanks again.
busterkeaton wrote on 3/13/2009, 9:00 AM
I am find myself inches away from screen looking for imperfections.

That's probably not the best way to check your video. Give it two feet at least.

Also have you ever adjusted the sharpness on your TV? HD tvs can easily have sharpness set to a distracting level.
farss wrote on 3/13/2009, 2:30 PM
So you're feeding standard def into a HDTV?

Hard edges are always going to look like crap in that scenario especially under close inspection. The OTA vision at 1080 will look superb obviously .

Bob.