Timeline and preview not showing the same frame ++

mysteryno wrote on 3/25/2003, 10:45 PM

I have been working for a while on this problem, and I'm stumped.
1) I started a project in premiere 6.5 on a Pinnacle DV500 DVD. All capturing was done there.
2) With half the project done VV4 +DVD came out with surround mixing and burning.
3) Exported single avi and 6 wav files from Premiere using Pinnacle codec.
4) Resolved black flash problems by splitting the avi file into 12 parts no larger than 500 Meg.
5) Now comes the problem. When I expand the timeline beyond frame level and look at it closely
a) A rendered mpeg2 compiant video stream (of multiple varieties) is slightly shifted to the right, with respect to the original frames in the timeline, increasing with the position of the cusor down the timeline. Also some frames are doubled in the rendered Mpeg
b) Watching the preview window as I go frame by frame, the timeline shows a proper progression of frames, (watching a leaf in the corner), but the preview window will double that same frame that was rendered, even though the timeline thumbnail shows the proper frame.

I have tried changing drop-frame/non-drop-frame settings in premiere and VV4 both, and have tried open dml/avi1.0, using pinnacle and windows dv codecs, and various standard and custom settings on Mpeg encoding.

It looks like VV4 is confused. Is there a difference how the timeline displays frames vs. preview window and rendering??

HELP

Comments

Tyler.Durden wrote on 3/26/2003, 7:01 AM

Hi,

Couple of thoughts:

The rendered mpeg might be 30fps, so you will see it advance faster overlayed in the TL compared to a 29.97 avi...

as for the TL and preview not showing the same frame... is there only one file in the TL?

Could you expand on that doubling?

HTH, MPH

mysteryno wrote on 3/26/2003, 1:42 PM

The mpeg render is using the main concept plug-in with a standard setting for dvda video stream (29.97fps).
There are multiple files in the time-line, but that is the only video file at that point.
The doubling is one frame twice, so that there are two of the same frame, but the next frame is the correct one after the doubled frame.
I just shifted the media on the timeline several times, and the problem spot would go back one frame on the clip, and return to its' original position.
one other side effect is that the mpeg seems to skip the first frame on the timeline, so I need to shift it one frame to check positions properly.
I'm beginning to think this is a field problem, but all the settings in all the programs are set for lower field first.

SonyDennis wrote on 3/28/2003, 9:35 AM

You asked: "Is there a difference how the timeline displays frames vs. preview window and rendering??"

Yes, quite a few. The timeline / event display is independent of project frame rate; at high zoom levels, it displays all the frames in the media, at the media frame rate.

The project frame rate is used during editing. With "quantize to frames" ON, you can see where project frames are, because the cursor can only be on them. Of course, for interlaced video, there is the point halfway between frame steps which is where the other field comes from. You will only see this in Good (Full) and Best (Full) modes; field processing is not done in Draft or Preview modes, or in Good/Best if in (Auto) mode and the video preview is drawing half-size.

By zooming in, you can see how the project frame stepping interacts with media frames, especially if they are at different rates. Also, the "resample" mode of the event comes into play in how media frame are converted to project frames.

When you render, frames are generated at the rate needed for the render. This is again independent of project framerate and media framerates. Most render formats show their framerate, or you can go into the Custom page, or you can see the render framerate in the Video Preview window during a render (yes, it says "Project" there, but only because it's hijacked the video engine for the render).

If you want to see render frame locations during editing, set your project framerate to the same as your render framerate.

Hope this helped.

///d@

mysteryno wrote on 3/28/2003, 7:30 PM

The problem was that somehow the rendered avi files from premiere/pinnacle were the 29.97 fps plus a small fraction of a frame. However the original captured clips that were batch captured in premiere with the pinnacle codec are fine.
The workaround was, to render the timeline out as a targa sequence, (over 33,000 images), in segments below 10,000 since the numbering only goes to 9,999. Then import the sequences into VV4 and match them up.
I might have saved myself some time just by rebuilding the timeline in VV4 from premiere, but it was fairly complex. But at least it's done!!

And thanks for the info SonicDennis.