Timeline thumbnails display speed : GPU or CPU dependent ?

judelaw wrote on 8/5/2018, 6:13 PM

Good evening everyone! I'm building a new computer that I'm trying to optimize for Vegas Pro, and for that I need to know more about the timeline thumbnails. They use to take quite some time to display themselves while I was scrolling on my previous computer, and I would like to know if it's GPU or CPU dependent :

Then I have a a more general question about whether a smooth preview experience in Vegas is generally more "CPU frequency dependent" or more "CPU core count dependent", but it's less important as I'm buying anyway a lot of ram for ram preview purposes.

Thanks a lot !

Comments

Kinvermark wrote on 8/5/2018, 6:28 PM

Vegas hardware optimization is a bit of a mystery to me, but FWIW,

1) Thumbnails need a FAST DRIVE (so it can read the media to find "poster" frames.)

2) Editing preview needs both good GPU and good CPU with emphasis on frequency over total number of cores (hexacore or better though).

3) Lots of RAM is good, but I wouldn't build a system around RAM previews - that is not efficient editing practice, and RAM previews are not totally reliable representations of your timeline. Build the system so you rarely need to use RAM previews, if at all. Selective pre-renders are more reliable, although slower.

I think some of the hardware gurus can give more precise advice.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/5/2018, 6:53 PM

Not sure how is lots of RAM for you. On my aging 3930k running at 4.3GHz there is no noticeable difference between 16GB and 32GB RAM installed. Although, 32GB should mean less transaction between physical and virtual memory. In Win7 I used to reduce the swap file to its absolute minimum and thatbdid improve system responsiveness with 32GB over 16GB; I haven’t tested that yet with Win10.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

judelaw wrote on 8/5/2018, 7:22 PM

Thank for you answers!

@kinvermark : I guess it means my SSD was not fast enough, yet it was a SSD drive! : "M4-CT128M4SSD2 (119 Gb)". I'm definitely building a system around RAM previews as I have already bought 96gb of ram. I have yet to choose a GPU, but it has to be compatible with some other things, as I'm not only doing video editing. My limited understanding was that GPU wasn't that important in Vegas Pro, hence my question.

@old smoke : Your CPU specs seem pretty good. I guess your Vegas pro must run quite smoothly doesn't it? If it turns out my RAM preview based system isn't such a good one, then I will get a frequency based system, like you, in a more or less close future. Problem is you can't have both (huge ram and huge frequency) unless you spend a lot.

 

judelaw wrote on 8/5/2018, 7:57 PM

"RAM previews are not totally reliable representations of your timeline"

Why is that ? Could you be more precise ?

Kinvermark wrote on 8/5/2018, 10:01 PM

So if you are saying that ALL your media was on this 119GB SSD, and that it was only used for source media, then I have no answer as to why it wouldn't be fast enough.

Don't know why RAM previews aren't 100% reliable; just that they are not. Particularly for composites like moving text and lower thirds with lines, gradients, etc. They may be 99% reliable (I haven't kept a count) so perhaps that is good enough.

 

judelaw wrote on 8/6/2018, 12:59 AM

Well if it's only a text matter I guess it's ok. I'm more concerned about smooth transitions and stuttering in general, especially when effects are applied, or when I need a superposition of two tracks to blur some annoying logo at the bottom or at the top of the source media.

I hate it when a frame or more freezes when the source media comes from another track, it makes it impossible to have an idea of what my rendered video will look like, everything stutters so I just pray the result will be good, and as it stutters I can't concentrate on detecting other defects and it's only after a few days when it's too late to correct anything that I see those small defects. Pretty annoying, and tiring to work in those conditions, and if I can get rid of that, then I can concentrate on something else, maybe try some new effects, level up.

judelaw wrote on 8/6/2018, 1:08 AM

I was thinking for a while about buying a super fast pci ssd or something like that. But they are expensive. As a matter of fact the ssd witch contained my source media also contained my OS and all my programs, maybe that explains it ?

I was planning on buying an additional ssd that would be dedicated to the source media only, but maybe I need 4 ssds, one for the OS, a second for the source media, a third for installing Vegas, and a fourth to render the video :)
Although my video are short : Never more than 7 minutes, so rendering time isn't really a important issue

ryclark wrote on 8/6/2018, 6:10 AM

Certainly worth having three I would have thought. The OS and Vegas installation should be OK on the same drive. I have a separate drive for the source material and then a third for temp files, pre-renders and rendering.

I have recently upgraded my OS and program drive to an NVMe drive from a standard SATA SSD which has speeded things up quite a bit.

judelaw wrote on 8/6/2018, 6:59 AM

Hi Ryclark!

Are you sure I need a third ? What are the temp files you are talking about ? I don't prerender on disk, I use ram preview instead as I said above, and rendering time isn't a problem because my video projects are short : Never more than 6mn, 7mn at most.

All I can buy is pcie, my motherboard doesn't have a slot for NVME.

I have SAS though (and sata of course).

OldSmoke wrote on 8/6/2018, 10:38 AM

You are not saying much about the rest of the system. RAM and SSD are a small factor in the whole system. CPU, GPU play a much bigger role.

Last changed by OldSmoke on 8/6/2018, 8:44 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

BruceUSA wrote on 8/6/2018, 12:01 PM

I see that many people complicate them self with what computer they needs. The fact is, all come down to how deep is your pocket. Your pocket will dictate how powerful computer you can have. If all you want is a good mid range i7 6 cores and up and good GPU, anything from r9 290 and up to the current one will be fine and 32gb of rams.. Since, every body wants nice TL performance in playback. Then, you should go with AMD GPU. OS should be on a SSD and your import/export on a spindle 7200rpm will also be fine. Stop messing with ram preview this and that. You don't need to do any of that to get smooth preview. My old 4930K @4.5ghz with SSD on the OS and 2 spindle hard for import/export along with r9 290X card. This combo cut HD footage smooth like butter and 4K footage single track smooth as well.

Last changed by BruceUSA on 8/6/2018, 12:06 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

CPU:  i9 Core Ultra 285K OCed @5.6Ghz  
MBO: MSI Z890 MEG ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4
RAM: 48GB RGB DDR5 8200mhz
GPU: NVidia RTX 5080 16GB Triple fan OCed 3100mhz, Bandwidth 1152 GB/s     
NVMe: 2TB T705 Gen5 OS, 4TB Gen4 storage
MSI PSU 1250W. OS: Windows 11 Pro. Custom built hard tube watercooling

 

                                   

                 

               

 

BruceUSA wrote on 8/6/2018, 12:14 PM

https://vimeo.com/116909126

This should give you a pretty idea of what to expect from a 6 cores system with AMD card.

CPU:  i9 Core Ultra 285K OCed @5.6Ghz  
MBO: MSI Z890 MEG ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4
RAM: 48GB RGB DDR5 8200mhz
GPU: NVidia RTX 5080 16GB Triple fan OCed 3100mhz, Bandwidth 1152 GB/s     
NVMe: 2TB T705 Gen5 OS, 4TB Gen4 storage
MSI PSU 1250W. OS: Windows 11 Pro. Custom built hard tube watercooling

 

                                   

                 

               

 

Kinvermark wrote on 8/6/2018, 2:30 PM

Stop messing with ram preview this and that. You don't need to do any of that to get smooth preview

Agreed. I was trying to gently persuade judelaw away from that direction. It's OK to allow enough RAM for occasional use, but I think designing a system with that as a central concept will lead to a disappointing experience.

fifonik wrote on 8/6/2018, 6:01 PM

I see that many people complicate them self with what computer they needs.

+1

Situation is changing constantly with software updates (OS, drivers, Vegas). You cannot predict future.

For your hardware you should choose trusted brands (to avoid issues with implementation and get firmware updates if required), do not go with too new (to avoid issues with new firmware and drivers) or too old stuff and you should be fine.

SSD for OS is the must as previously mentioned. Be on a safe side (do not overclock or testing very carefully, avoid beta drivers if possible, do not install rubbish).

Camcorder: Panasonic X1500 + Panasonic X920 + GoPro Hero 11 Black

Desktop: MB: MSI B650P, CPU: AMD Ryzen 9700X, RAM: G'Skill 32 GB DDR5@6000, Graphics card: MSI RX6600 8GB, SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ 1TB (NVMe, OS), HDD WD 4TB, HDD Toshiba 4TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22

Author of FFMetrics and FFBitrateViewer

judelaw wrote on 8/6/2018, 6:19 PM

I will use win7 64 it's the best windows right ?

 

Red Prince wrote on 8/6/2018, 6:55 PM

I will use win7 64 it's the best windows right ?

Best is relative.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

OldSmoke wrote on 8/6/2018, 8:47 PM

I will use win7 64 it's the best windows right ?

Read this.

Last changed by OldSmoke on 8/6/2018, 8:47 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)