Tip: continous long shooting w/AVCHD

Sebaz wrote on 5/17/2010, 9:23 AM
Many of you may already know this, but it may be of help to some others. One of the greatest advantages of AVCHD over HDV is the ability to shoot long events without being constrained to 63 minutes (or 80 minutes if you dare use those tapes), having about 3 or more hours depending on card and camera.

The problem is, if you just copy the files from the card using Windows Explorer, or sometimes even if you use the software that came with the camera, then the files will copy as is, without joining when a single take was longer than the maximum file size allowed by the camera, and as far as I've seen these cameras always format in FAT32 so the file size couldn't be larger than 4 GB anyway.

Some bundled programs such as Pixela Imagemixer in Canon cameras automatically join the files, while others will transfer the files without joining, such as the lame AVCCAM Viewer from Panasonic.

If you just drag a sequence of files that were supposed to be part of a long take, then Vegas will not join them well in the timeline, even if they are right next to each other. Sound will be muted for a split second and sometimes video will too.

So to avoid this, the best choice is to use Device Explorer (menu View > Device Explorer) to import the files, since it detects files that are separate but are supposed to be part of the same take. But if you already imported a big amount of files using Windows Explorer or the camera's software and the files are not joined, and you already erased the original card, the other solution is to use TSMuxer, a small free program, to do the joining.

You can get it from http://www.smlabs.net/tsmuxer_en.html. It is a standalone program without an installer, it comes in a zip file. Once you unzip it and run tsMuxerGUI.exe, you have to keep it on one side of the screen and on the other side the window with the files that you need to join. Drag the first file into the Input Files window in TSMuxer, and uncheck "Add picture timing info" and "Continually insert SPS/PPS" in General track options.

Then, drag the next files (this is very important or it will not work) into the "Join" button on the right of TSMuxer. As soon as you drag the mouse pointer over the button the word join in it will turn bold, and then you can release the mouse button. If you did this right, the files to be joined to the first one should show two plus signs before them.

Next you have to select M2TS muxing in the Output area, and browse to the folder where you want the target file, or you can leave it as it is if you want them in the same place. Since this is essentially a copy, if you select another physical hard drive it will obviously go much faster.

After the joined file is done, then you can import it into Vegas.

Comments

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 5/17/2010, 10:52 AM
Hi,

A good tip, but a little tedious. Especially if you just want to avoid those short audio mutes. This is a parameter that you can to my understanding set to zero as the default, before bringing in your clips into the timeline. Combining 4GB files to even bigger ones has some downsides too. Forget backing them up on FAT32 formatted external HD's. For compatibility most of my storage is formatted as FAT32. This is NOT a problem since the CAM chops a long take into 4GB chunks anyway. Even DVD and BluRay (as backup media) have their file size limits...

Cheers

Christian

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Sebaz wrote on 5/17/2010, 12:43 PM
It's not only a matter of avoiding the audio (sometimes also video) mutes. In my tests I put two individual files that were supposed to be just one take on a Vegas timeline. Then immediately below it, I put the file that was joined with Device Explorer. Then on a third set of AV tracks I put the files joined with TS Muxer. Both joined files were identical, however the two files that were individual but one right after another in the timeline, ended up being a few frames longer, and the second file was out of sync with the ones that had been joined.

I don't really care about keeping files in FAT32, I don't even know why in 2010 camcorders are using such an outdated file system. The hard drives are NTFS, if I ever get an external drive I'll format it the same way, and for burning back ups I always use UDF, which 7 and Vista can read natively, and XP only takes a small install to make UDF discs readable, and I don't have XP anyway.
john-beale wrote on 5/17/2010, 2:24 PM
I think FAT is still used because it is much simpler & cheaper than the alternatives. According to thread below, MS has been unable to document NTFS (!):

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/isvtoolsprocessesandarchitecture/thread/699e4f81-e54c-4326-b775-17c68526a1bd
"We had the same issue with our volume selling appliances. It turned out that a reliable NTFS implementation would need a major investment (many million USD) and at least 4-5 years of development time. '

farss wrote on 5/17/2010, 3:04 PM
One reason FAT32 is still used on flash cards is because of speed.
On the EX cameras Sony were able to effectively double the write speed to SDHC cards by changing the FAT32 stratergy. Also NTFS is a journaling file system which means more writes that would wear out flash memory very quickly.

As for joining 4GB chunks I'm yet to find that Vegas can do this correctly via Device Explorer for XDCAM EX footage. It's fine when the clips reside on the one card but fails when a clip spans cards. The result seems to be a lost GOP at the join.

Bob.
John_Cline wrote on 5/17/2010, 3:09 PM
It seems that what we need is a "FAT64" file system that gets past the 4GB file size limit without all the overhead of NTFS.
TeetimeNC wrote on 5/17/2010, 4:56 PM
[i]As for joining 4GB chunks I'm yet to find that Vegas can do this correctly via Device Explorer for XDCAM EX footage. It's fine when the clips reside on the one card but fails when a clip spans cards. The result seems to be a lost GOP at the join[\i]

That would sure negate some of the advantage of two card slots.

/jerry
Sebaz wrote on 5/17/2010, 7:55 PM
Jerry, have you tried joining them with TSMuxer?
BudWzr wrote on 5/17/2010, 9:54 PM
There is the exFAT file system.
Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/17/2010, 10:16 PM
Old school approach Example:

1. Click Start >> Run.
2. Type cmd and press Enter. This will open the command prompt.
3. In the command prompt, type
copy /b "D:\FirstClip.mpg" + "D:\SecondClip.mpg" "D:\FullMovie.mpg"
where FirstClip.mpg and SecondClip.mpg are the video files to join and FullMovie.mpg is the resultant combined file.
You can specify any number of files to join.
Also notice the entire file path in the above command.
4. Press enter and the files will be joined.

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
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farss wrote on 5/17/2010, 10:18 PM
"That would sure negate some of the advantage of two card slots."

Thankfully I can join them up perfectly with Sony's Clipbrowser and export as MXF. All that gets negated is the advantage of having the Device Explorer and "XDCAM EX Support" in Vegas.

Maybe this got fixed in V9.0e as an easter egg, I must get around to testing this.

Bob.
John_Cline wrote on 5/17/2010, 11:07 PM
Microsoft hasn't released the exFAT file specification and Microsoft requires a license in order to implement exFAT.

There is virtually no support outside the PC environment at the moment, however, this may change with the new SDXC cards and Memory Stick XC, which require exFAT.

For a flat fee companies can integrate exFAT into consumer devices, including cameras and camcorders. There is a different pricing structure for mobile phones, PCs and networks.
Rob Franks wrote on 5/18/2010, 3:56 AM
I believe Panasonic has gone exFAT already (with the tm700) and some one did some formatting on SDHC cards.... According to this thread anyway;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18649604&postcount=1
TeetimeNC wrote on 5/18/2010, 5:18 AM
>Jerry, have you tried joining them with TSMuxer?

Sebaz, my cam doesn't have two card slots so I don't have the problem. Hopefully SCS will fix this before I have to deal with it.

I always use Device Explorer to import so I don't need TSMuxer to join multi-file clips from a single card either.

/jerry