TM700 Color Correction Tips?

Andy_L wrote on 4/20/2011, 9:14 AM
For you TM700 shooters out there, anyone have a reliable way w/Vegas to cut the weird greenish tint that the camera's auto white balance tends to yield?

I haven't found a way to get rid of it w/o adding some other unwanted color cast.

I've since learned to set the camera to daylight for everything for better results, but this is (for me) one of the most annoying aspects of the cam...

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 4/20/2011, 9:15 AM
Can you upload some examples?
Andy_L wrote on 4/20/2011, 5:02 PM
sorry this is so big (80MB), but it's a good representative clip of footage that should be easy to correct but isn't:

http://www.sierradescents.com/00007.MTS

Here's a photoshop-corrected still of what I think a reasonable correction would look like (not fantastic, but usable):

http://www.sierradescents.com/PHOTOSHOP.JPG

Correcting TM700 footage in Vegas seems to entail trading one unpleasant tint for another... :)
musicvid10 wrote on 4/20/2011, 6:43 PM
I'll work on a correction, but it looks a lot like UV wash, not a white balance problem. The sensors are simply more sensitive to near-visible UV than the human eye.

Without knowing how your camera responds, we have a lot of problem with that in the Colorado Rockies, and a glass UV absorption filter is the place to start.

I'll approach it like I would UV wash and let you know what I come up with.
musicvid10 wrote on 4/20/2011, 7:39 PM
OK, here's my generic correction for this type of problem, which I have seen a lot of over the years.
This is how the render at frame 29 will look on your player (not the Vegas preview).



Used two stacked levels filters in Vegas.
1) Red channel
-- Input end: .888
-- Output start: .004
2) All channels
-- Input start: .071
-- Input end: .893

Of course one could do more with curves or color corrector, but I like to work quickly and get on with it. HTH
MTuggy wrote on 4/20/2011, 9:58 PM
Thanks for this great thread. I haven't used two stacked levels filters before - works nicely, Musicvid.

I do have the same camera but have yet to shoot my summer snow/skiing shots but will be soon. This will be helpful.

Mike
SuperG wrote on 4/20/2011, 11:20 PM
This would be an easy one for the primary color corrector - the white snow and dark pants are obvious targets for the inverse eydropper tools. Another scene might be more difficult though.
musicvid10 wrote on 4/20/2011, 11:44 PM
"the white snow and dark pants are obvious targets for the inverse eydropper tools."

The snow is not white; it is highly reflective of blue/cyan from the open sky, and the dark fabric (whether cotton or synthetic) also fluoresces dark blue from UV, not black . . .
Key on these things and you will have a very red print, take my word.
The warm-neutral wool cap is a more likely target (takes some experience to know these things).
SuperG wrote on 4/21/2011, 12:27 AM
I understand what you're saying... I use the color corrector as a starting point. Often, the scope is necessary too.

amendegw wrote on 4/21/2011, 3:11 AM
Here's what I came up with using the primary color corrector - and yes, the trees came up looking too red (actually orange) for my eyes, so I adjusted the mid-range manually.


...Jerry

System Model:     Alienware M18 R1
System:           Windows 11 Pro
Processor:        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13980HX, 2200 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 32 Logical Processor(s)

Installed Memory: 64.0 GB
Display Adapter:  NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU (16GB), Nvidia Studio Driver 566.14 Nov 2024
Overclock Off

Display:          1920x1200 240 hertz
Storage (8TB Total):
    OS Drive:       NVMe KIOXIA 4096GB
        Data Drive:     NVMe Samsung SSD 990 PRO 4TB
        Data Drive:     Glyph Blackbox Pro 14TB

Vegas Pro 22 Build 194

Cameras:
Canon R5 Mark II
Canon R3
Sony A9

plasmavideo wrote on 4/21/2011, 6:17 AM
Andy, I haven't tried it in Vegas yet, but in another editing app, I've fixed my TM300 footage with a slight negative hue adjustment to match the footage from a Sony and a Canon cam - same problem you describe..

I'll give it a go in Vegas when I get back to editville and see what I can find.
Andy_L wrote on 4/21/2011, 10:03 AM
Guys, thanks for putting so much time in on this! That TM700 on auto color drives me insane!

musicvid, are you using any kind of objective system when you stack levels filters to adjust channels individually, or just 'eyeballing it' ??
musicvid10 wrote on 4/21/2011, 10:35 AM
Objective tool is the scopes, set meaningful detail inside 16-235, and in this case set levels to equalize R-G-B in whites more-or-less.

Subjective: Key on a known neutral (skier's cap). Look at known "memory" areas (bluish shadows, brownish tree trunks).

That being said, I could have twiddled the blue gamma a bit, having the effect of restoring some more color to the trees. But like I said, I'm lazy.

It's like learning to snowboard (which I don't do) -- takes lots of practice and progress is measured in bruises. My basic approach to leveling is based on still photography theory:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=754100#754093

You might want to take a look at why your camera seems to be doing double Studio RGB; ~30-218 rather than 16-235, at least on my scopes in 8.0c.

LoTN wrote on 4/21/2011, 11:43 AM
I am a bit late on this one but didn't resist to have a try with it.

I've put a curves correction on the footage. In order to limit the contrast increase, I used compositing in difference mode (10%) with a track where the same footage is in grayscale. Then, I used a light final correction with the secondary color corrector. It may not look very natural, I'm moving and my good display is already packed. I hope it gives you some hints.







This is not the first time I see such color cast out of a TM700. There are a lot of reports about TM700 lazy AWB. Some people say you have to wait a little bit to let the firmware to do its job and set it's reference while others claim that AWB must be avoided. I would suggest to use an UV filter and do some tests.

Full size corrected image is here
musicvid10 wrote on 4/21/2011, 1:04 PM
Actually, I discovered the levels at frame 29 are not representative of the whole clip. His autoexposure opens up more toward the end. Tsk, Tsk.
Andy_L wrote on 4/21/2011, 4:34 PM
AAAAHHHH!! My secret is out!!

musicvid, thanks for the stacking levels tip -- I see what you're doing to get the snow to go neutral, and it works well.

regarding the TM700, there is some suggestion on the 'net that the ND filter is to blame for the color casts. As noted earlier, I typically just shoot everything on the daylight setting, which I find much easier to correct.
SuperG wrote on 4/22/2011, 11:33 AM
"AAAAHHHH!! My secret is out!!"


There probably isn't a person on this planet who hasn't learned the hard way...the dangers of auto anything! Whether's it's exposure, white balance, or audio - you never know what you'll get.

I still have stuff where I left it on auto exposure and Man, it's hard to level...

musicvid10 wrote on 4/22/2011, 11:48 AM
Whether's it's exposure, white balance, or audio -

- or FOCUS!
amendegw wrote on 4/22/2011, 1:16 PM
Another complication here is that the TM700 is slow to make it's auto-white balance corrections. When shooting in auto-mode, it's good practice to wait for the camera to "do its thing" before pressing the record button. Obviously, "manual white balance" is a better plan.

Here's my test:



...Jerry

System Model:     Alienware M18 R1
System:           Windows 11 Pro
Processor:        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13980HX, 2200 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 32 Logical Processor(s)

Installed Memory: 64.0 GB
Display Adapter:  NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU (16GB), Nvidia Studio Driver 566.14 Nov 2024
Overclock Off

Display:          1920x1200 240 hertz
Storage (8TB Total):
    OS Drive:       NVMe KIOXIA 4096GB
        Data Drive:     NVMe Samsung SSD 990 PRO 4TB
        Data Drive:     Glyph Blackbox Pro 14TB

Vegas Pro 22 Build 194

Cameras:
Canon R5 Mark II
Canon R3
Sony A9

SuperG wrote on 4/22/2011, 5:21 PM
"- or FOCUS! "


Heh, that reminds me of the scene in 'Up in Smoke', where two foreigners in a seedy adult theatre holler 'FOC US' - the camera then pans to the screen where the projection is way out of focus...