TO SF techs: MAJOR BUG FOUND - PLEASE ADDRESS THIS SF

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karlc wrote on 8/31/2000, 10:13 AM
Although we only use the audio portion, this is *precisely* what we
experienced with the upgrade to Vegas Video as well ... and the
phenomena of intermittent instability you guys are experiencing was
the motivating factor in switching to an NT based operating system
containing as much horsepower as we could afford.

KAC ...

George Marrero wrote:
>>For whatever reason, it appears that VA2a consumes a lot more
>>resources as compared to its predessor. Performance is definitely
>>an issue. Minimizing the program, moving the mouse, selecting a
>>waveform, just about anything you do in VA2a, while playing back a
>>mix, will stutter and gap. Directx effects will compound the
problem.
karlc wrote on 8/31/2000, 10:34 AM
George Marrero wrote:

>>Thank you Karl. Also, thanks for the tip on the dual
processor/delta
>>driver problem, as this 'was' the route I was going towards.

I thought I'd throw that in because the lack of dual processor
support of the Delta cards was definitely in the fine print and not
very obvious.

Delta's tech support did say that they should have that problem
addressed in a couple of months, so it would do well to check back
with Delta from time to time .... really nice cards, BTW. I was
particularly interested in the 2496 strictly as an extra S/PDIF I/O,
and the higher SR capability in case we needed it for future client
requests.

>>I'll sit on my single cpu for a bit, but apart from a Tyan or ASUS
>>dual cpu board, is there anything you recommend? I don't have, nor
>>will I buy
>>a board that uses RDRAM, because I can't afford it. Conventional
>>pc100 DIMMs is what I use.

Either of those MB brands is of supposedly higher quality than what
we are using ... a Gigabyte (discontinued, at that) ... although it
is working quite nicely.

>>
>>As for WIN2k permissions and such, are there any quirks I
experience

The only Win2K permissions problems with Vegas we've noted thus far
is that a user must have a minnimum of a "Power User" account in
order to login and use the program without the "demo" screens popping
up. SF is aware of this issue and will hopefully solve it in a later
release.

>>with it and VP1b?

Did not use VP with Win2K, so can't help you there.

>>Does VV have the same rendering problems as VA?

We have had no need to use the rendering feature ... but since it is
apparently an issue with the audio engine, which is supposedly the
same in both programs, I would assume that VV is also affected ... I
could well be mistaken on this issue, however.

KAC ...

>>Thank you,
>>George
>>
>>PS

>>___________________________________________________________________
>>Karl Caillouet wrote:
>>>>Absolutely ... Vegas Video (we just use the audio portion)is ROCK
>>>>solid on our new DAW running Win2k ... said machine put together
>>>>because we couldn't get VV to run reliably on our old Win98 box,
>>for
>>>>whatever reason.
>>>>
>>>>One caveat with the Delta's drivers for Win2k ... they do NOT
work
>>>>with machines with dual processors at this time.
>>>>
>>>>KAC ...
>>>>
>>>>George Marrero wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>PS. Is anyone out there using WIN2K and has it been worth it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My system:
>>>>>>P3-700 - 128meg ram - maudio Delta 66 - SBlive - Viper Ultra
770 -
>>
>>>>>>SCSI HD and ATA/66 HD - WIN98SE
>>>>
gmarrero wrote on 8/31/2000, 12:21 PM
Karl: The fact that Delta dosn't support dual CPUs...does this mean
that it won't work at all, or it just doesn't take advantage of the
2nd cpu? Yeah, I'm very happy with the operation of the Delta. 2496,
spdif, slave syncing all work flawlessly.
g

Karl wrote:
>>Delta's tech support did say that they should have that problem
>>addressed in a couple of months, so it would do well to check back
>>with Delta from time to time .... really nice cards, BTW.

karlc wrote on 8/31/2000, 12:42 PM
George,

Their exact wording: "The current Delta NT/2000 drivers will work
with Windows 2000, unless you have Multiprocessors."

KAC ...

George Marrero wrote:
>>Karl: The fact that Delta dosn't support dual CPUs...does this mean
>>that it won't work at all, or it just doesn't take advantage of the
>>2nd cpu?
Kelly_S wrote on 8/31/2000, 12:46 PM
Hello George.

Have you tried adjusting the audio buffering from the actual options
in Vegas?

Personally I can think of no reason why Vegas Audio would stutter and
gap from minimizing the the program, unless the audio buffer settings
are not set up high enough or your video card drivers are possibly
outdated.

You can adjust this by clicking on options -> Preferences -> Audio.

Also, if you are having any other problems, please give us a call at
608-256-5555 Mon-Fri.

Thanks.

George Marrero wrote:
>>For whatever reason, it appears that VA2a consumes a lot more
>>resources as compared to its predessor. Performance is definitely
an
>>issue. Minimizing the program, moving the mouse, selecting a
>>waveform, just about anything you do in VA2a, while playing back a
>>mix, will stutter and gap. Directx effects will compound the
problem.
>>I cannot play a mix of 11 tracks and directx effects without it
>>hiccupping exactly at 3 minutes and 17 seconds, during a passage
that
>>is playing 5 tracks at a time. Funny thing is that at 3 minutes and
>>25 seconds, the mix resumes play and is fine until the end. (No
other
>>programs, including monitoring, antivirus, firewall, etc programs
are
>>running and no wallpaper. Video settings do not seem to matter.
I've
>>tried 640x480x256 all the way to my default: 1024x768x24bit)
>>
>>Also, something very peculiar: The complexity of a waveform also
has
>>alot to do with the problem. By complexity, I mean, number of notes
>>and dynamics. I almost compare it to a turntable trying to play
>>Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (on Telarc) and having the stylus try
to
>>track the canon shots on the grooves.
>>George
>>
>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>last one about the crash:
>>>>Ok - this is the way you have to repro this:
>>>>It only happens when the tracks are all selected at the same
time.
>>>>Create 10 tracks. Ctrl-a to select all. Minimize all with the ~
>>key.
>>>>arm a track for record (which arms all). record for 10 seconds
and
>>>>then hit enter. You will crash. The funny thing is, if you
unselect
>>>>the tracks and then select them all again, this does NOT happen.
>>>>Go figure.
>>
gmarrero wrote on 8/31/2000, 3:09 PM
Hello K. Shaffer:
Yes, I've adjusted this setting countless times, in both directions,
but to no avail. And yes I've adjusted it a little at a time then
tried it again, over and over. My video driver is: Diamond Viper V770
for Windows 98 version 4. I've tried several versions (newer and
older) of this driver with no success.

Again, not to sound like a broken record....THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN
VP1B!!!!!

What was changed in the software that requires MORE resources than
VP1b?
May you please debrief us?
What have you found out and what's going to be addressed in version
VA2B?
Thank you,
George
PS I just received win2k, I have all the latest and greatest win2k
compatible drivers and I'll see what things are any different.

PPS
Forgive me, but I won't be calling long distance to assist SF
troubleshoot and find bugs in SF's own software. I believe I know how
to use this software and I know I've done everything correctly.
I already paid for the software with money and my time. I don't wish
to pay for it any further. If SF would like to contact me for
questions concerning their software, they have my number. I will be
very glad to assist you and give you as much time as you require in
order to make Vegas the best it can be.

K.Shaffer wrote:
>>Hello George.
>>
>>Have you tried adjusting the audio buffering from the actual
options
>>in Vegas?
>>
>>There is no reason why Vegas Audio would stutter and gap from
>>minimizing the the program, unless the audio buffer settings are
>>not set up high enough or your video card drivers are very poor
>>quality.
>>
>>You can adjust this by clicking on options -> Preferences -> Audio.
>>
>>Also, if you are having any other problems, please give us a call
at
>>608-256-5555 Mon-Fri.
>>
>>Thanks.
PipelineAudio wrote on 8/31/2000, 4:08 PM


Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>I was trying to repro this 24 bit bug and I think I got it. I tried
>>to record 16 tracks and then 10 and both times I had all tracks
>>minimized. Both times it crashed. Then I did the same thing and
just
>>left the tracks at their default size and no crash. It also does
this
>>at 16 bit.
>>
>>Yikes. Anyone else able to repro this?
>>



I routinely record 16 tracks at a time onto vegas

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt
Usually I completely minimize all the tracks
while recording

Also, I record in sync so I can put more tracks in from my da-
x8's...if its gonna crash, it either crashes right at the very start
of recording or right when I hit stop...this problem has been since
the very first version of vegas and has gotten a little better with
each update....

I record at 48khz/ 16 bit....maybe thats why I dont have the problem
of you guys. So far, it hasnt crashed at the 40 sec mark....


PipelineAudio wrote on 8/31/2000, 4:28 PM


K.Shaffer wrote:
>>Hello George.
>>
>>Have you tried adjusting the audio buffering from the actual
options
>>in Vegas?
>>
>>There is no reason why Vegas Audio would stutter and gap from
>>minimizing the the program, unless the audio buffer settings are
>>not set up high enough or your video card drivers are very poor
>>quality.
>>
>>You can adjust this by clicking on options -> Preferences -> Audio.
>>
>>Also, if you are having any other problems, please give us a call
at
>>608-256-5555 Mon-Fri.
>>
>>Thanks.


Kelly, vegas gaps stutters and burbps when ever, I scroll or zoom I
have a matrox g400 with "buss mastering" on...sahould that be off?
Kelly_S wrote on 8/31/2000, 5:50 PM
Hello George.

I am not a developer, and do not have the details as to which code
was changed in the software.

I am going to check in with our engineers and see if I can find
anything else out about this to clear things up as to whether this is
something that we need to fix.

Once I have more details I'll let you all know!


George Marrero wrote:
>>Hello K. Shaffer:
>>Yes, I've adjusted this setting countless times, in both
directions,
>>but to no avail. And yes I've adjusted it a little at a time then
>>tried it again, over and over. My video driver is: Diamond Viper
V770
>>for Windows 98 version 4. I've tried several versions (newer and
>>older) of this driver with no success.
>>
>>Again, not to sound like a broken record....THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN
>>VP1B!!!!!
>>
>>What was changed in the software that requires MORE resources than
>>VP1b?
>>May you please debrief us?
>>What have you found out and what's going to be addressed in version
>>VA2B?
>>Thank you,
>>George
>>PS I just received win2k, I have all the latest and greatest win2k
>>compatible drivers and I'll see what things are any different.
>>
>>PPS
>>Forgive me, but I won't be calling long distance to assist SF
>>troubleshoot and find bugs in SF's own software. I believe I know
how
>>to use this software and I know I've done everything correctly.
>>I already paid for the software with money and my time. I don't
wish
>>to pay for it any further. If SF would like to contact me for
>>questions concerning their software, they have my number. I will be
>>very glad to assist you and give you as much time as you require in
>>order to make Vegas the best it can be.
>>
>>K.Shaffer wrote:
>>>>Hello George.
>>>>
>>>>Have you tried adjusting the audio buffering from the actual
>>options
>>>>in Vegas?
>>>>
>>>>Personally I can think of no reason why Vegas Audio would stutter
>>>>and gap from minimizing the the program, unless the audio buffer
>>>>settings are not set up high enough or your video card drivers
>>>>are possibly outdated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You can adjust this by clicking on options -> Preferences ->
Audio.
>>>>
>>>>Also, if you are having any other problems, please give us a call
>>at
>>>>608-256-5555 Mon-Fri.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>
Kelly_S wrote on 8/31/2000, 6:05 PM
Hello again.

We are now looking into this issue as I type, so
please hold until further notice.

We really appreciate the diligence and patience on this matter, and
we plan on getting this resolved as soon as possible for everyone who
is experiencing this behavior.


Aaron Carey wrote:
>>
>>
>>K.Shaffer wrote:
>>>>Hello George.
>>>>
>>>>Have you tried adjusting the audio buffering from the actual
>>options
>>>>in Vegas?
>>>>
>>>>There is no reason why Vegas Audio would stutter and gap from
>>>>minimizing the the program, unless the audio buffer settings are
>>>>not set up high enough or your video card drivers are very poor
>>>>quality.
>>>>
>>>>You can adjust this by clicking on options -> Preferences ->
Audio.
>>>>
>>>>Also, if you are having any other problems, please give us a call
>>at
>>>>608-256-5555 Mon-Fri.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>Kelly, vegas gaps stutters and burbps when ever, I scroll or zoom I
>>have a matrox g400 with "buss mastering" on...sahould that be off?
>>
JoeD wrote on 9/3/2000, 9:50 PM
What the heck do you think I was saying in starting this post? Yes -
I see the crashes and it repros everytime.





Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>I was trying to repro this 24 bit bug and I think I got it. I tried
>>to record 16 tracks and then 10 and both times I had all tracks
>>minimized. Both times it crashed. Then I did the same thing and
just
>>left the tracks at their default size and no crash. It also does
this
>>at 16 bit.
>>
>>Yikes. Anyone else able to repro this?
>>
>>George Marrero wrote:
>>>>Yeah, I always render my projects as I go along in order to
>>conserve
>>>>CPU and in case the system crashes and I lose the .veg files... I
>>do
>>>>anticipate the Gods of SF to check this and other promiment bugs
>>>>before the next 'update'.
>>>>
>>>>And yes, I use W98SE at the moment............I going 2K
>>soon....and
>>>>then I'll try VA2a again just for s & gs, though I'm almost sure
>>the
>>>>bugs will persist until VA2b, which hopefully will have gone thru
a
>>>>fine-toothed comb prior to my slow 28.8k download.....God help us.
>>>>G
>>>>Aaron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>OK now you got me scared...I render constantly, I render fx to
>>save
>>>>>>cpu power, I render drumagog triggered tracks...I render groups
>>of
>>>>>>vocals together, and very rarely, I do render a mix on Vegas,
but
>>I
>>>>>>havent noticed thios porblem(I think)...although that would
>>explain
>>>>>>why sometimes I have to normalise a previously peaking at -0.3
>>>>>>file...hmmmm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>EEEEK
>>>>>>
CDM wrote on 9/4/2000, 1:40 PM
Joe - I was trying to widen the field a little and help out the SF
tech support people. Saying that it crashes doesn't really narrow the
problem down. It has to do with minimizing all the tracks and
recording while they're all selected. This is very different than
just recording 16 tracks and having it crash. I wanted to know if
anyone other than you or I were able to repro this. I finally gave SF
the info to have thwem repro it and I hope there's a fix on the way.
If yours crashes under different circumstances than mentioned above I
suggest you write that in to Tech Support as well.

Thanks,
Charles.

Joe Doria wrote:
>>What the heck do you think I was saying in starting this post?
Yes -
>>I see the crashes and it repros everytime.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>I was trying to repro this 24 bit bug and I think I got it. I
tried
>>>>to record 16 tracks and then 10 and both times I had all tracks
>>>>minimized. Both times it crashed. Then I did the same thing and
>>just
>>>>left the tracks at their default size and no crash. It also does
>>this
>>>>at 16 bit.
>>>>
>>>>Yikes. Anyone else able to repro this?
>>>>
>>>>George Marrero wrote:
>>>>>>Yeah, I always render my projects as I go along in order to
>>>>conserve
>>>>>>CPU and in case the system crashes and I lose the .veg files...
I
>>>>do
>>>>>>anticipate the Gods of SF to check this and other promiment
bugs
>>>>>>before the next 'update'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And yes, I use W98SE at the moment............I going 2K
>>>>soon....and
>>>>>>then I'll try VA2a again just for s & gs, though I'm almost
sure
>>>>the
>>>>>>bugs will persist until VA2b, which hopefully will have gone
thru
>>a
>>>>>>fine-toothed comb prior to my slow 28.8k download.....God help
us.
>>>>>>G
>>>>>>Aaron wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>OK now you got me scared...I render constantly, I render fx
to
>>>>save
>>>>>>>>cpu power, I render drumagog triggered tracks...I render
groups
>>>>of
>>>>>>>>vocals together, and very rarely, I do render a mix on Vegas,
>>but
>>>>I
>>>>>>>>havent noticed thios porblem(I think)...although that would
>>>>explain
>>>>>>>>why sometimes I have to normalise a previously peaking at -
0.3
>>>>>>>>file...hmmmm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>EEEEK
>>>>>>>>