Comments

ushere wrote on 6/1/2008, 7:44 AM
buy one with a ball head and bubble! almost instant levelling on any ground.

miller, manfrotto, satchler, bogen, to name a few.

a good tripod is an ESSENTIAL.

leslie
Grazie wrote on 6/1/2008, 8:34 AM
Miller DS10. After legs out, level in 3 secs - done!

(Thanks Bob!}

Grazie
InterceptPoint wrote on 6/1/2008, 10:20 AM
I have a pretty nice tripod with two different levels and I still find it hard to get a good level.

What I was looking for was something like:

1. Level by adjusting one leg.
2. Turn the level 90 degrees and level a second leg
3. Turn it back and .....

Now that's what I mean by an algorithm.

Anybody got one?
Laurence wrote on 6/1/2008, 10:58 AM
Are you by chance using a photographers tripod with a center post instead of a leveling ball?
MUTTLEY wrote on 6/1/2008, 11:01 AM

I struggled with leg leveling for years and just recently bought a nice ball head, as has already been mentioned that IS the method for leveling in less than two minutes, actually probably less then 15 seconds the majority of the time. Beyond that there is no magic "algorithm", it's simply hit or miss and wasted frustration.

- Ray
Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com
GlennChan wrote on 6/1/2008, 11:25 AM
If the tripod doesn't have a bubble, zoom in onto horizontal lines (for an object that should look level, e.g. stage) and eyeball it.

2- In one case, going by the bubble made the stage look slanted. So either the bubble was off or the stage really is slanted. In any case, you should double check your leveling to see if it looks right.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/1/2008, 11:40 AM
Unless your Z axis is already perfectly level (and this is rare), horizontal lines will not appear level except when you are pointed exactly at X=0, Z=min. And, they will curve on the sides depending on the focal length of your lens. So, the only "quick" method without a bubble I know of is to make a vertical line right in the center of your field appear straight up and down. This is how still photographers have done it forever. Panning to the left or right of center creates its own sets of problems but the vertical line trick is still the best.
Grazie wrote on 6/1/2008, 11:42 AM
So either the bubble was off or the stage really is slanted. In any case, you should double check your leveling to see if it looks right.

Over the years I have completed many central London based building refurbishment/development projects. Old buildings; buildings with correct and NOT correct walls against each other! Glenn, you are just so right! - Even if it it is vertical - I've check with a plumb-bob line before now! - it can still look squiffy.

Grazie
rmack350 wrote on 6/1/2008, 12:37 PM
A ball head with a bull's eye spirit level is the only way to go and it's the way all professionals work (on a tripod) in the video business. You never see pros adjusting tripod legs to get a level.

That said, many DPs I used to work with would set their level, look at the shot, and then cheat the level. You have to be careful doing this because you can be fooled. Experience tells you what element really needs to be level. For product shots I might actually be looking at a vertical feature to sense if something is level.

If leveling by eye I think it's important to get all the display info out of your viewfinder so that all you can see is the picture.

As an aside, getting cranes and jibs level is very important. When they are not level at their rotational point they tend to drift and settle to one position. This can be subtle but it becomes hugely apparent if you have the jib mounted in a truck and are driving down a road. As the road changes, the level changes, and the jib tends to pull towards a downhill position.

Now, for leveling dolly track, balancing a jib or crane or steadicam, or rigging cable on those four, I think it pays to have a method. For tripods, just get the proper gear and it's easy as pie.

Rob Mack
Laurence wrote on 6/1/2008, 2:56 PM
If you already have a photographers tripod (with a center post instead of a leveling ball) and you are using a flat based head like a Manfrotto 503hdv, you can add one of http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=554093&is=REGthese[/link] accessories to do the leveling.

If you need to make the best of a tripod without a leveling ball, here is a pretty quick way to do it:

1/ Extend the legs to the end of the sections so that all the extensions in use are fully extended and the same length.

This works pretty well most of the time. Times when it doesn't

1/ When you have a short camera operator who is not tall enough to have full leg sections extended.
richard-courtney wrote on 6/1/2008, 3:09 PM
Use this algorithm:

3*§Σ Sqrt(length of leg)+3/((2*3/6)



Or you can try a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318714-REG/Kaiser_206386_Circular_Bubble_Level.htmlKaiser Circular Bubble Level[/link].
Stick it on the top of your camera. Includes double sided tape.

Or this nifty http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/263729-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_337_337_Flash_Hot_Shoe.htmlBogen Hot Shoe bubble[/link].

Many cameras will have a display of a rectangular box to adjust so you don't get
staircase effect on edges.


(Sorry I didn't really mean to be a wise cracker)
InterceptPoint wrote on 6/1/2008, 5:06 PM
Courtney's solution: 3*§Σ Sqrt(length of leg)+3/((2*3/6)

This is obviously wrong. I think there is an error and the real algorithm is more like:

3*§Σ++; Sqrt(length of leg)+3/((2*3/6)

OTOH, I tried Lawrence's scheme and it sort of works. I think I will stick with that one now. Thanks for all the inputs.
johnmeyer wrote on 6/1/2008, 5:51 PM
My problem is that bubbles on all my tripods are broken. I don't think I'm that rough -- nothing else I own has ever broken.

I replaced one of the bubbles, but it was really tough to get it back into the hole in my (Bogen) tripod and actually rest level. Doesn't sound like it would have been tough to do this, but it was.

Laurence wrote on 6/1/2008, 6:27 PM
OTOH, I tried Lawrence's scheme and it sort of works. I think I will stick with that one now.

"sort of works" is about as good as your going to get without a leveling ball or at least that Manfrotto http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=554093&is=REGcamera leveler[/link].
rmack350 wrote on 6/1/2008, 7:14 PM
Yep, that head would help a lot and keep you on budget. Professional gear is very expensive. The nice thing about an attachment like that is that all you have to do is get your old sticks in the ballpark and then finish leveling with the head (same as you'd do with pro gear but for about $4000.00 less.

On the topic of balance, maybe manfrotto also has a cheap slide plate you could use with that leveling plate.

Rob
rmack350 wrote on 6/1/2008, 7:17 PM
But your advice is good. To generalize, get a methodical routine and stick to it. Pretty soon it'll be second nature and you can think about your shot while setting up your sticks.

Rob
richard-courtney wrote on 6/1/2008, 7:33 PM
Laurence:
Great find! 10 degrees should be more than enough correction. I wish my
local pro shop had this in stock.

rmack350:
See http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=528538this post[/link] I bought a slide for and old tripod
and it worked great.

InterceptPoint:
Good luck with your project. With the leveler and slide plate I don't think
you will be disappointed.
Serena wrote on 6/1/2008, 10:47 PM
Undoubtedly the ball head with level bubble is the quickest way of leveling, but there is a quick way without. Adjust legs to required length (will be various on sloping ground), check plate against reference (horizon, building), take one of the legs leg and move it sideways (and in and out) to level plate. In my distant past fellow undergrads used to suffer trying to level a surveying tripod (bubbles but no ball head), until I demonstrated this method.

EDIT: if you have a single line level bubble, then turning the head to check in orthogonal directions is correct.
MRe wrote on 6/2/2008, 12:25 AM
Hi,
either get Manfrotto MA 438 (BALL CAMERA LEVELLER 3/8) which can be used basically with all tripods with standard 3/8 screw (it will sit in on top of the center column and the head is affixed to it).

Or if you own MA 055 or MA 190 series tripods, you could replace the center column with MA 555A or MA 555B respectively.

Both solutions work like a charm. I have two 438's and one 555A (plus one MA 525 with built-in 75mm bowl, MA 519 sitting on top of that).

Edit: oops, Laurence already said this. But you should also check the 555A/B if you have a supported tripod. It is a bit lighter solution than the 438.
farss wrote on 6/2/2008, 12:45 AM
I've learned two things about tripods, the first one a long time ago. Tripods made for fotogs are useless for video, get the real deal and life gets so much easier. Aligning to edges of buildings and stages and you can be really OFF and it gets much worse in 16x9.

Second thing I realised only recently. Video tripods (the ones with bowls for levelling and fluid damping) are pretty useless for still photography. Depending on what you're shooting a crankup centre column can save a lot of time. One of those pistol grip ball heads might be a good investment too if you've got to snap the shot without any control over what happens in front of the camera.

Bob.
Serena wrote on 6/2/2008, 1:09 AM
I use my Miller for stills without problems I've noticed. I guess there have been times when a quick lift adjustment would be convenient, but the same applies to video. Agree that video must have a good sturdy tripod, but so does long lens and time exposure for stills. Or have I got the wrong slant on the different applications?
farss wrote on 6/2/2008, 1:56 AM
I was shooting products on a table when I realised how handy a crank up centre column would have been, sort of like what we'd use a jib for. I', also told good if the column is very heavy to stop vibration from the mirror.

The trigger release ball head lets you adjust the camera to any angle quickly including canting it, let go of trigger for instant lock while you snap off quick shots. A hard core photog put me onto this bit of kit, didn't really understand it until I tried one.

Maybe one of the photogs here can explain it better than me.

Bob.
Laurence wrote on 6/2/2008, 11:33 AM
When I first bought what I thought was a decent video tripod, it turned out to be a heavy duty photographers tripod. I had no end of frustration levelling the darned thing until I bought the Manfrotto leveler. After that, it worked so well that I just kept it.

Actually, for some things it works better. For instance, one thing that is really hard to do with a tradition videographer's is to level a really high camera (since the level in that case is above your head). This is however exactly what you want to do many times during an even video shoot. You want to set up a wedding wide shot for one camera and just sort of leave it there. Same thing with a stage production where you want to shoot above the audience's heads. With the crank up tripod and the Manfrotto leveler, I can set up a level shot and crank it up over everyone's heads.

This same tripod has three rather long leg sections. With two extended it is at standup shooting height. With the third leg extension extended it is several feet over my head. If I am on a sloped incline, I can level it then extend the final section for high shots and still have pretty good level.

These types of shots would be really finicky on a proper videographer's tripod.

I don't use this tripod all the time, but it is an excellent second tripod for this type of work.