Spoke with the Miller guy here in London, at this week's BROADCAST PRODUCTION SHOW, says the BBC can't get enough of 'em!

THANKS Bob! Love me Miller Solo10 . . once I got the pan/tilt pressure wheels setup nicely I can swing around soooo smoothly and the camera will just rest up at the end. No hands needed to steady!

Grazie

>I don't want to pay more than $300<

This is kinda one of my pet peeves. I'm with Bob on this.
You have to come to consider your tripod as one of the most important pieces of gear affecting your final product. Do not treat it as an afterthought.

The reality is that decent tripods for professional use start at about $700-$800.
Sachtler, Miller, Vinten are all good names. Stay away from Manfrotto/Bogen.

Gary

I had to wait until I got some "project" money built up in my WAR chest. So as I progressed then I could afford. There are shades of grey when it comes to this "craft" buy HARD when you can afford. I understand the position, but do try to think of a cheaper/lower price tripod as as much of an ultimate hindrance as leaving the lens cap on! I mean it! I should have bought my Miller before my Wide Angle and my Canon Audio adaptor .. actually/maybe, I SHOULDN'T have bought my Canon Audio adaptor in the first place. .

Grazie

I disagree with GaryKleiner... I own a Manfrotto/Bogen tripod and fluid head. I spend about $300 for both (on sale) and am very pleased with it. The cool thing about it... it doesn't have a secondary support in the middle... so I can lower the pod 6" off the ground (legs spread out like a star) for some truly great shots (and I can tilt and pan too! Can't do that on a sand bag!)

I DO agree with the need for a good tripod and fluid head... I just don't agree with the 'stay away from Manfrotto/Bogen.' Happy shopping!




GaryKleiner

>Stay away from Manfrotto/Bogen<

I can't believe some of you schmucks are steering him towards high-end pro tripods, when all he wanted was a "decent" tripod for his VX2000. Manfrotto/Bogen will more than satisfy his needs. He can get a 501 head and some decent sticks for at or below $300.

If a guy just needs a Honda, he doesn't need to be sold on a Lexus.

This is what I use for my VX2000. It works great and hasn't failed me yet:

Bogen/Manfrotto Wilderness (3228WN) Tripod. It consists of a Bogen 501 fluid head, 3443 padded leg tripod, and a padded bag. If you shop around you can find it for less.

Canoga Camera has a good reputation. They even have their own coupon code page.

John

Haha...I like that DGates

[DGates]
"If a guy just needs a Honda, he doesn't need to be sold on a Lexus."

Yes, thank you for your comment, I don't want to pay $700 for a tripod...I'm not a professional videographer, but I do want a good tripod that will allow me to capture some good shoots. So yes, I would like a Honda, I just want it to be a good Honda that works well :)

I do appreciate all of the input though...thanks!

If you look at it that way then I'd say Miller tripods are on par with a Honda, Satchler on par with a Lexus. However long after your Honda or Lexus will cost you money to dispose of your Miller or Satchler will still be worth what you paid for it. To put it another way, good tripods are an investment, cheap ones an expense. Don't take my word for this, check out eBay for bargains on Satchler or Miller tripods, I've seen dummies pay more than the new price for these tripods there.

So what to look for, what does a tripod designed for video use have to have?

A levelling system, i.e. a bowl. On lightweight tripods these are 75mm, on the bigger units 100mm. Tripods for 35mm cameras typically have 150mm bowls. The great thing about this system is you can loosen one knob and get your tripod level using a built in spirit level, always carry a small torch so you see the bubble in the dark. All this matters big time because there's nothing worse than an off level shot, an off level pan is even worse. But there's more to this. If you want to use a dolly, crane or jib they all take the heads off any tripod so long as it uses an industry sized bowl.

The other requirements for a tripod is it should be easy to setup and pull down. It should be light but sturdy. Today that means carbon fibre. It should have smooth and adjustable pan and tilt, that's where you pay more to get more.

I've worked in the video rental business for 6 years now. In that time ALL our Daiwa tripods have been replaced, they simply failed. Our cheapo made in China ones we buy in bulk, we throw out a few every year. The two 30 year old Miller 'woodies' are still as good as they day they were made. We have never had to replace a Miller tripod, we've had the odd plastic bit broken by baggage handlers, all the bits were readily replaced by Miller. Satchler are much the same but we've never had Satchler so I'm going on hearsay.

Bogan / Manfrotto is quite good. We use mostly their light stands. The pros reckon their light stands aren't as good as Matthews and I agree, we do have some Matthews gear and it's built like a tank. Then again a faulty light stand although a problem is unlikely to ruin a shoot.

Bob.

Could I match up a decent head with just about any tripod? For instance, lets say I buy a Manfrotto 510 head for $150, then match it up with a $75 tripod (sticks). Is that a good idea or would that defeat the purpose of spending a couple hundred on a tripod??

Some of the Manfrotto heads are interchangeable i.e. use the same threads. Ideally avoid tripods designed for still cameras. Not that they don't have their uses but really what you need is a system with a BOWL! Any head that uses say a 75mm bowl should fit any sticks that have a 75mm bowl.

One tip. Cheap tripods wobble, so carry a 1 gallon plastic bottle. Fill it with water and hang it from the head of the tripod to preload the wobbly bits.

Again - what are you doing?

I love my Bogen tripod. I got a Bogen ball leveler and a nice fluid head. I beat the hell out of it, and it's worked just fine for years.
I shoot 90% of what I do with that gear.

When I know I'm going to be on the long end of a long telephoto, I schlep out the Miller head. It was about $1,200 bucks just for the head. I don't beat it at all. I treat it like a baby. It's smooooth.

But most of my work has limited action. I do a lot of lock offs and a lot of cuts. I can definitely do a decent pan with my Bogen.

If you have to ask... then you don't need to spend the money. Buy the Bogen and learn what you're doing. When you get a decent job and NEED a great head - well, you'll know it.

v

I have a friend who tried my older Velbon tripod, and loved the fluid pans and tilts. He replaced his junk tripod with some other brand, and hated it. He returned it, and bought an inexpensive Velbon (maybe $125; I forget the details). It's definitely a lighter-duty tripod than the ones mentioned here, but it's very smooth and he is happy with it. I intercut his camera shots with mine for certain events and his footage is excellent.

To put it another way, good tripods are an investment, cheap ones an expense.

Of everything everyone in this thread has said, the above statement is a matter of fact.

The bottom line is only the shooter can determine which tripod is best for his needs. The rest of us can only presume he (editorially speaking) knows what he's talking about. Alas, that's not always the case, especially when one asks such a question. Like Victor said recently in another post, if you have to ask, then you aren't ready.

Choosing the right tripod can be equal to or even more important that choosing the right camera. The tripod is the foundation of your video, and it can have as much or more impact on the quality of your images as the camera.

There are two places where you will see a real difference in tripods (cheap vs. quality). The first in is pans & tilts (okay, three places). The third (and this is where the vast majority fall woefully short) is when the lens is zoomed in to its greatest focal length. If the head and legs are not steady enough, it'll look like the shot was done hand held. So much for having a tripod.

Another fact is too many people use still camera tripods and heads for shooting video, and their videos look like it! (Not all "fluid heads" are!)

If you don't care what your video looks like, then don't worry about getting a quality tripod. However, if you want your audience to think you know what you're doing and you want the best looking images you can possibly get, then do your homework;save up for a quality tripod.

Like Bob said, it's an investment. The camera is only half of the equation. The tripod is the other half. If the two halves don't match...

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think you've helped me tremendously in my decision.

-Matt

I can recommend the Bogen / Manfrotto 3021 Pro Tripod Legs (Black) with 3433 (501) Pro Video Fluid Head - Supports 9.90 lb. It cost $307.95 at B&H .

~jr

And just because they label something "pro" does not make it so.

That tripod (Bogen/Manfrotto 3021) is a still camera tripod. It is nowhere as stable as a cine tripod--wasn't designed to be.

Hint #1: Any tripod that uses an elevating center post is a still camera tripod. Raising the camera on the center post only adds to the instability of such a system.

Hint #2: Just because a head says it will hold X-number of pounds does not mean it will steady X-number of pounds when zoomed in on the subject while panning or tilting!

As I said above, about the camera and tripod being halves of the equation... that tripod and head are grossly mismatched.

As Bob implied, such systems are a waste of money for any serious videographer.

There's another good reason for a REAL tripod: when you walk away to get something and you're still wearing your headphones which are plugged into your camera. Did that today. Wow, that really pulled me up sharpish and leaping back to grab the camera. The wooden sticks Miller had barely moved.

For general use and wedding work, I second JohnnyRoy's info.

I can't disagree that better equipment is, well, BETTER!
But I also can't recommend a thousand dollar tripod underneath a $1,500 3 pound camera. It just isn't warranted.

If you are shooting on a professional BetaSP or even some of the bigger and heavier DV rigs - you've got to get good legs. Serena's comment is so true. I don't think there's one of us who hasn't stepped away from the camera with the headset attached at one point or other.

I use an older (much older) but similar Bogen setup myself, for most of my work (see above). It's fine.

I would add one thing if you've got the bucks and don't mind an extra pound or two. Bogen makes a great ball-leveler. In some ways it's better than the levelers that you get automatically with the better heads in that this one will till A LOT. I love it for fast Dutch tilts. Wedding work doesn't demand the kind of perfection that Jay is used to delivering (I don't think).

I've got a Miller/Gitzo $2,000 setup as well (still not up to Cartoni), but for 90% of my work, I grab the Bogen. That's for my PD170. You'd probably want a better set of legs for any $5,000 and up HD rig, though. They are heavier, and you cry louder if they fall over. Now, in truth, myt Bogen has NEVER fallen over. But when I eventually make the shift to the "next step", I'll probably retire the Bogen legs. Upgrading is always a chain of expenses - aw gee.

v

"But I also can't recommend a thousand dollar tripod underneath a $1,500 3 pound camera. It just isn't warranted."

.. OK Vic, so just where does the budget<>use<>value balance happen? When the value of the tripod is within £500 or £1,000 or £2,000 of the camera? And yes I realise that I appear to be making a "meal-outta" this but I can't advise NOT using a better tripod than maybe the value £££ of the camera? Should the ratio of value be 2:1? 1.5:1? And yes these are spurious values. PLUS, most here will be upgrading their cameras more often than their tripods.

Vic, for me, my video purchases have often presented me with this Chicken 'n Egg conundrum. What comes first? cheaper equipment used on more expensive equipment PLUS what I can or can't afford? Or what?

What I will say is that my Miller has:

* Demanded I'm a better shooter because it has has features that have tested me! This is a good thing.

* Provided subtleties that I didn't even KNOW could exist with my lowlier Velbon ( great tripod! ) - for example the dampener wheels. This has shown me the value of minimum "snatch" and "at-rest" lock.

* Independent leg operation for really unstable and rocky terrain. I've now shot in natural areas that I would never have considered before. Having the option to independently adjust the legs for the shot I WANT and not needing to "move" the tripod to an area that will support the tripod but NOT give me the shot.

* A relatively MASSIVE locking bowl headgear pushing me to make more creative shots. I now do Dutch tilts and side-on shots with panning as a matter of course.

I hope this has helped, even if this has meant that it has made you consider "other" possibilities. Hey guy, I'm still learning too! As are my purchasing decisions.

Best regards,

Grazie

How to avoid this:

1) Don't plug headphones directly into a camera. Instead use a short (300mm) extension lead out of the camera. Then if you pull on the lead the inline plug / socket will unplug. With the lead plug directly into the camera unless you are lucky enough to pull straight on the lead the lateral force will jam the plug in the socket.

2) Use cans with coilly leads. With these you don't reash the end of your leash with such a jolt.

Hope this save someone an expensive repair bill.

Bob.

I think the word Grazie was after was 'striction'. Nothing ruins a pan more than having it start / end with a jerk. Even with the best tripods and heads this can be a problem IF you don't warm the head up first, you have to get the oil distrubuted by moveing the head in both directions for about 30 seconds.
Also heads need to be setup properly, all those knobs on the good heads are there for a reason, and the head / camera has to be balanced, ideally the camera should have a very slight tendancy to tilt backwards when the friction adjustments are right off. This raises another issue, you should always use a tripod within its weight range, you can have too much tripod! A 1Kg camera on a big head will not work properly as the counterbalancing system in the head is not being loaded enough.

This discussion raises a paradox for me. Someone starting out in any field is always tempted to not spend a lot as they're just putting their toes in the water. Yet hand a master of the craft any cheap tool and you'll hardly notice any difference in the quality of what he does. And yet rank amateurs like me need all the help they can get.

Bob.

hey farss - great advice,

1) Don't plug headphones directly into a camera. Instead use a short (300mm) extension lead out of the camera. Then if you pull on the lead the inline plug / socket will unplug. With the lead plug directly into the camera unless you are lucky enough to pull straight on the lead the lateral force will jam the plug in the socket.

been doing this since i pull the studios first beta rig over. they never let me forget it ;-}

2) Use cans with coilly leads. With these you don't reash the end of your leash with such a jolt.

not too sure about this one - some of those curlies are like elastic bands; enough stored energy to pull it over once you've realised.....

and finally,

Yet hand a master of the craft any cheap tool and you'll hardly notice any difference in the quality of what he does.

bullshit! half the pro camera people i know would refuse to work with inferior equipment, the other half would bitch their way through every pan and tilt.

And yet rank amateurs like me need all the help they can get.

every professional started out as a rank amateur. what helped make them professional was asking professionals, and knowing a pearl of wisdom from a flight of ego...

leslie