Two years later still disappointed with Vegas Pro

Cliff Etzel wrote on 12/11/2014, 11:06 AM

Here's my rant for what it's worth.

First off - after trying to get timely responses to various questions here on the forums, I'm resigned to sticking with Adobe's CS6 apps for my post work.

Timeline performance is lackluster, Vegas Pro 13 is now locking up randomly for no apparent reason even though nothing has changed, etc and has basically forced my decision to stick with Adobe as much as I don't like it. I can't play back QT animation files without it bringing Vegas (v428) to an absolute crawl - yet those kinds of files/codecs are used all the time in post work. I get RT playback with my measly GTX-550ti in Ppro CS6 at full resolution with multiple streams of 1080P footage, QT animation files, graphics and transitions. I've had to resort to preview 1/2 resolution to get near the same thing in Vegas Pro. My footage is running off of a Raid0 so I know it's not a data throughput bottle neck. I can't render a simple cineform AVI because somehow Vegas can't work with it correctly - getting "license is expired" - and I'm using the GoPro Studio version, yet with PPro - no issues whatsoever.

Regarding actual hardware - Visit Premiere Pro Benchmarking (PPBM7 - http://ppbm7.com/) and you discover a wealth of information that goes IN DEPTH into the discussion of hardware specifically for video editing and creating balanced editing based systems and the hardware for Premiere Pro. It furthermore goes into fine tuning those configurations based on solid configurations for various levels of editing machines. I'm left wanting here on the Vegas Forums. The search feature is laborious and time consuming. PPBM is rock solid with benchmarking results, recommendations, etc all broken down and easily laid out.

The shift of hardcore users like @JohnnyRoy moving to the MAC platform, Douglas Spotted Eagle has disappeared completely from the forums from what I can tell, in addition to the lack of innovation on things like industry standard Bins, integrated media encoding that can be done outside of Vegas Pro like Adobe Media Encoder - the lack of these kinds of time saving tools have also added to the decision. A lack on SCS's part in not creating a standardized graphics card list APPROVED and KNOWN to work out of the box has also played a role (Adobe has had a list since CS5 - even though the VP forums thread on the best graphics cards for Vegas Pro was helpful), Radeon cards appear to lack industry support throughout numerous apps from what I can tell - but I could be wrong. I will concede the newer versions of Premiere Pro support OpenCL, but then again, one is locked to ransomware since Adobe will not release an update for us CS6 users to utilize Radeon OpenCL for Windows based cards so we're stuck with using nVidia CUDA based cards only. And there are those who prefer to not have to pay a monthly fee to get their work done and honestly, I don't' trust Adobe to NOT raise their pricing scheme in the future.

The collaboration support within the post production field for Premiere Pro in addition has grown to such a level now I would be remiss in deviating from Premier Pro as I'm now beginning to collaborate with others and they have standardized on Ppro.

I'll still lurk occasionally hoping one day that SCS will create a revised interface and GPU codebase for future versions of Vegas Pro that will work more tightly with other apps and have full support of third party industry standard plugins.

I'll revisit when SCS announces Vegas Pro 14 and see if anything has changed for the better.

Until that time - cheers

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Comments

videoITguy wrote on 12/12/2014, 10:18 PM

Craftech example here: I was very happy to run multi-computer network all installed with Vegas 9.0e - very efficient works well on 32bit platform. Was all paid for years ago. Problem is : that plug-in development has moved on, as the support thrust toward 64bit OS which meant Win7 installs. Then one thing led to another - had to install VegasPro13 build 373 (prior current 428). Per individual PC patform unit cost for this upgrade in hardware -$1175. Upgrade cost for Vegas software $120 US per station.

Rob Franks wrote on 12/12/2014, 10:25 PM

"Of special note is how regarded Douglas Spotted Eagle, was in being in the forefront of Vasst, the training videos, and eventually a really good book marketed thru Amazon. "

You found his books good? The last DSE book I bought was for Vegas 8 and it cost me 50 bucks plus tax and shipping. Of course speaking purely on a personal basis, I didn't find it that good. Most of the info was there (except for detailed surround sound work which is mainly why I bought it.... all of maybe 10 or 15 pages of stuff I already new :( ... anyway in spite of that I found it very scattered. Bits and pieces of a subject spread out all over. I ended up jumping all over the book for the scattered info and had to put it all together in my head. It was a bit disappointing.

Anyway... sorry , I digress..... still bitter about wasting that money!

ushere wrote on 12/13/2014, 12:55 AM

still bitter about wasting that money

welcome to video production ;-)

i'd be a bitter, twisted old man if i added together the amount of money i've wasted on hard and software over the years.

wait a minute, i AM a bitter and twisted old man.....

John222 wrote on 12/13/2014, 7:40 AM

I'm running the dreaded Vegas Pro 11 on Windows 8.1 and it never crashes or locks up. I think most problems are system related.

videoITguy wrote on 12/13/2014, 8:44 AM

RobFranks, your criticism could be justice. But here's the deal, why don't you take a spin at writing a book, or even try creating a video with wide audience appeal that is going to be sold by Amazon worldwide. Yes, yes, I dare you. Try to seek a little income with your venture.

I argue with you, in that you just don't understand broadcasting media ( i.e. mass audience). Everybody today is so hung up on narrowcasting like Utube - that they forget really what it is like to fend for yourself in the mass markets.

Rob Franks wrote on 12/13/2014, 12:41 PM

"I argue with you, in that you just don't understand broadcasting media ( i.e. mass audience). Everybody today is so hung up on narrowcasting like Utube - that they forget really what it is like to fend for yourself in the mass markets."

You can argue all you want but the bottom line doesn't change the fact that I was quite disappointed in the book and it wasn't worth what I paid for it.

As for not understanding broadcast media (and other such things)... that's really kind of a silly statement to make. After all, we buy such books to increase our understanding, not because we already know it ;)

videoITguy wrote on 12/13/2014, 3:50 PM

Rob, I know the book wasn't written just for you. That's the whole point. What world you currently live-in (about content gathering) is all from narrow casting and so far as the video world for you - that is all it will ever be from here on. Get real and understand what the author intended for the book and what is was supposed to accomplish.

Rob Franks wrote on 12/13/2014, 5:05 PM

" Get real and understand what the author intended for the book and what is was supposed to accomplish. "

What the author intended with the book was to make his bank account bigger. Now whether that actually happened or not only the author knows for sure. But then that's' just a guess because I'm not the author... and neither are you so I'm not exactly sure you should be speaking about the author's intent.

BTW... have you ever read the book? Do you even own it? Maybe you can tell me the first word on page 379 just so I know we're.... on the same page :)

videoITguy wrote on 12/13/2014, 5:58 PM

I own it and teach it with a beginning class of film-making. I have been a film-maker lecturer ever since the 1970's and the book works for today's class of young people. Forget page 379

Rob Franks wrote on 12/13/2014, 6:48 PM

I didn't ask if you teach it, eat it, or sleep it. In fact I don't remember asking for any of your credentials at all so I have no idea why you're trying to factor them in here. They are rather insignificant and moot to the topic at hand.

I asked if you own and read the book. Clearly you do not, and have not.

videoITguy wrote on 12/13/2014, 7:43 PM

apparently you did not read my last post above this one. So you want the invoice number from Amazon, my friend?

Rob Franks wrote on 12/13/2014, 10:01 PM

"apparently you did not read my last post above this one."

Yes I did.
An d no, an invoice number is not required... just the first word on page 379.

ushere wrote on 12/13/2014, 10:43 PM

'this page left blank intentionally'

;-)

PeterDuke wrote on 12/13/2014, 11:51 PM

"The" ?

Rob Franks wrote on 12/14/2014, 12:53 AM

"'this page left blank intentionally'"

LOL!
It might as well have been!

Terje wrote on 12/15/2014, 1:10 AM

>> keeps the latest version of Vegas running in the background. WHY??

I can't say anything for the OP, but I can say why I do it? I love the Vegas work flow. I love the easy way it (theoretically) handles everything and anything on the time line. If I could edit only in Vegas, use Film Convert etc. I would be a happy cutter. Alas, that is not happening. For me, the Vegas 13 saga has been:

1/ Great, my old projects work. Things are finally fine in Vegas land
2/ Add the GH4 to my arsenal
3/ Pooof, Vegas no more
4/ Vegas improves in a release, but not enough to make it work
5/ Vegas gets another update, exited I install it, now it crashes instantly when I go "Render..."

So, as of now, I am forced to use PP CC, no matter how much I would like to use Vegas.

farss wrote on 12/15/2014, 5:30 AM

FWIW, I do own said book, sorry I'd have to find it to tell you what's on that page and I own a lot of books and other stuff and it was a long time ago that I read it :(

I kind of agree with your point but on the other hand such books are generally not well written and what one person finds well written another will not. Part of the problem is by intent they're very general which means they will waffle a lot.

By comparison the DV Rebels Guide is well written and focussed on a specific section of a much bigger topic. In the case of Spot's book as it's about Vegas where there's a lot of ways to get the job done and there's no real "Vegas" workflow then the task is doubly difficult. I'd also add in fairness to Spot that he was trying to fill a hole. apart from the descriptive documentation that comes with Vegas there's nothing else that I know of. There's plenty of excellent books on editing of course but nothing specifically for the Vegas user.

Seeing as how we're talking documentation in fairness I must say the manuals that Adobe used to ship with CS3 are awesome and heavy. For example they covered not just how to use the chroma key tools in their software but how to shoot the thing as well. From memory they also included a couple of laminated charts in their documentation.

Bob.

Richard Jones wrote on 12/15/2014, 6:06 AM

Vegas' own Manuals are pretty good (See Support - Manuals above). They can be downloaded or bought already printed (via Lulu) and offer a pretty comprehensive coverage of what Vegas can do. I doubt though whether any Manual could offer total coverage as there is so much going on in Vegas that is requires a wider or more general knowledge of things (e.g colour correction, use of Levels etc. etc).

In fairness to Spot, I found his Manuals (I've got them for Vegas 6 and 8) incredibly helpful when I started this video editing game and still refer to them occasionally. Do remember that the author has to try to cater for all levels of skills and knowledge and that, in some instances, what he writes will be too basic to be of much use to the experienced editor and that, in other cases, he might assume that the reader knows more than he actually does --- as an example, I had difficulty in understanding some of the terms, such as Ripple and others when I first started.

I know we'd be a lot worse off without these Manuals being available and I for one am grateful to the authors. If they made some money on the way, all well and good as they can't be expected to write such lengthy tomes for nothing.

Finally, some of the webinar recordings and other videos available via this site are excellent.

Richard.

Paul Fierlinger wrote on 12/15/2014, 6:58 AM

I remember that Spot voiced his own unhappiness with his book on this forum. This was around V 6, when I joined, which is why I remember his post. He complained about his editors taking out entire passages and sloppily manipulating the copy. He actually said something to the effect that the book makes him ashamed and would take it off the market if he had the power. Based on Spot's own assessment of his book I never bought his book.

Rob Franks wrote on 12/15/2014, 7:07 AM

Could have been his fault, could have been the editor's... dunno... not interested in laying blame. I just remember feeling quite let down after reading it. I did get some benefit out of it, but not really on the topics I was interested in.

videoITguy wrote on 12/15/2014, 8:49 AM

And so it goes. I doubt that Spot understood what broadcast media can do to the message. His disappointment is very common, and if he was truly a broadcaster himself from the outset, maybe the outcome would have been very different. The media minders as some just pointed out did the draconian thing to his edits.

My original point still stands, if you want to give the broadcast world a try, I want to see your book or video. Otherwise ....?

I recently paid $75 at Barnes and Noble for a book nicely printed that was by a leading portrait and model photographer. I had done all the research to find the best rated published work about fashion posing. When I brought this home, I thought this would be the cat's meow, but only to find I was horribly disappointed and learned very little.

johnmeyer wrote on 12/15/2014, 11:54 AM

I remember that Spot voiced his own unhappiness with his book on this forum. To be fair to Spot and to his books, which are perhaps being unfairly characterized in this thread, here is a link to the thread you refer to:

Book on Vegas 7

Use your browser's search to find "DSE" on the page.

He also partially apologized for another book:

Spot, your book is GREAT

Again, scroll down the page to his user name to see his post.

His apologies, in both cases, were about the lousy editing, and not the content.

Paul Fierlinger wrote on 12/15/2014, 12:51 PM

Isn't that what I said?

johnmeyer wrote on 12/15/2014, 12:58 PM

Isn't that what I said?Yes, exactly. My reason for posting was not to disagree in any way with your post, but with some of the other posts that made it sound like Spot's book(s) was really bad.

Your post said that he apologized for one of the books (he actually apologized for two books), but for anyone not reading carefully, they might conclude that Spot himself thought he didn't do a good job with the writing and the content. Instead, his criticism was strictly about the poor editing done by the publisher and the number of grammatical and spelling mistakes that were allowed to slip through to the final product.