Unstable color in CrossEffect in multiple tracks

pavel-soucek wrote on 7/27/2015, 1:10 PM
Hi there,
I need fast advice if it is possible. Everything is clear on that picture:


Now I would like to describe my setup before that "color crash".

(1.) I have synchronized (Plural Eyes + manualy) 3 camcorders (2x Panasonic, 1x CANON fotoaparát), then
(2.) cut in (MULTICAM),
(3.) adjust whole project (delete some scenes, input cross effects) in mode "expand to multiple tracks...", then finaly
(4.) adjust colors of all camcorders (via Color Match, White Balance, Color Balance), by using "Track FX..."

And color crash appears after step 4, in space of "FADE IN/OUT" viz previous picture in larger size if you like http://www.imgup.cz/image/y2I

I hav got an idea to Render each adjusted camcorder track as a mp4 file and then all put together and make cross effects. But it seems as way which is long and decreasing quality of video? What do you thik guys?

ASQ 2: Next question is related to subclips creating.I would like to create subclip of two crossed events, but when I try to do it it fails. I mean Subclip is created but it is always just first or the second part of crossed events. Any idea how to reach that goal?

Thanks guys!

Comments

Marc S wrote on 7/27/2015, 2:11 PM
Have you tried turning off the GPU setting?
ushere wrote on 7/28/2015, 1:30 AM
try putting a media gen black track as bottom track... and / or try fading bottom track in
pavel-soucek wrote on 7/28/2015, 2:52 AM
"try fading bottom track in"

It doesn't help at all, and "GPU Idea" as well. And when it comes to black track as bottom track i don't see it as a good way to deal with my problem, because I need to see two events crossing, not just fading out to black.

So any other tips or video tutorials, it would be wonderful to see it's working.
set wrote on 7/28/2015, 2:59 AM
Is it possibly affected due to the use of TRACK FX rather than EventFX ?
Try turn off temporarily.

Set

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PeterWright wrote on 7/28/2015, 4:19 AM
I'm not sure why you went back to multiple tracks - I've done many multicam projects without problems, using Media FX for Colour Correction, and dragging edges of adjacent events for crossfades or other transitions.

I'm not saying your problems are definitely caused by expanding the tracks, but I've never done this, and never had problems.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/28/2015, 5:03 AM
"(4.) adjust colors of all camcorders (via Color Match, White Balance, Color Balance), by using "Track FX...""

Do that first at the Project Media level, instead of later at the track level.
Think of it as a logical hierarchy; the order of things matters.

The bottom track and GPU off are both good advice.
pavel-soucek wrote on 7/28/2015, 9:03 AM
Thanks all for your attempts to help me.

If I do some crossfades in multicam mode it disappears (sharp cut appears) when I turn it on multiple track mode.

I am turning multiple track mode, because of detail correction like inputs of other videos out of order (sync) into a timeline. and others...

Logical hierarchy makes sense, but in that case it doesn't solve the problem! there is always color "greenblue" flash in point of transition!!!

When it comes to GPU i have tried it and also bottom track, but as I have mentioned it doesn't solve my issue.
OldSmoke wrote on 7/28/2015, 9:25 AM
@PavelFish

I have done countless multicam projects and there is absolutely no reason to switch back to multi track mode. You can do any transition and apply effects on any event if it is a single event.

Your problem most likely is related to applying the color corrections to match the different cameras on track level; this should be done on the media fx level. You can still transfer track level effects to the media level by saving each effect's setting to a unique name and then apply it on the media level.
You can make an easy test to check if it's really related to fx applied on the track level; disable all track effects on all tracks and see of the transition works.

You can put other videos/images on top of the multicam track in a separate track, same like you would do with text.

My advice is not to go back to multi track after doing your cuts in the multicam track. There is another neat feature that only works in multicam track mode; you can select several events and drop a transition on one event and it will be applied to all selected events.

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musicvid10 wrote on 7/28/2015, 11:11 AM
Whoa.
Are you talking about a PREVIEW lag or a RENDER lag?
If the former, Prerender! That's what it's there for.
OldSmoke wrote on 7/28/2015, 12:01 PM
@musicvid

It is neither, look at the image. I have seen this before and it happened with FX applied on a track level and you try make a transition just like the OP did.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

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musicvid10 wrote on 7/28/2015, 7:01 PM
I don't think I've experienced this; however, the advice seems to be the same.
pavel-soucek wrote on 7/29/2015, 8:36 AM
@Marc S

@musicvid10

@OldSmoke

Thank you guys for your reply! Finaly things moved forward. The reason why GPU did not work for me lied in necessity of closing Sony Vegas project after setting GPU off and then open the same project. Now I can proudly post that picture:


But there is one thing which is really important when it comes to turning GPU off . This feature makes Sony Vegas working faster, so I guess I have to do that JUST before the end of my work on project to avoid endless work?...

I agree with you that it would be better to adjust colors of all camcorders at the Project Media level, but it will affect source files, don't? And the reason why I do that when the files were on tracks was that I could use fx "Color match", which is related to preview, Trimmer window, from where it is taking image to comparision. Do you think this fx will work at the Project Media level?

When it comes to logical hierarchy, I am user of Sony Vegas just for 7 months, so I am just trying to find out what works and what is not the best idea.

I am using "expand to multiple track" after Multicam Track Cut, because I am changing sometimes my mind and muting different clips, and I can clearly see where the event stops, what is impossible to see in "Create a multicam Track" mode.

So do you think I can manage everything (transitions, inputing scenes, effects) in "Create Multicam" mode? Really no obstacles?

Thank you for your time and help!
musicvid10 wrote on 7/29/2015, 1:12 PM
No, applying effects at the Project Media level does not change the source files.
Sony Vegas is called a NONDESTRUCTIVE editor.
set wrote on 7/29/2015, 11:33 PM
There are 4 'levels' of FX can be applied in Sony Vegas :
- MediaFX, where this applied to whole media before they were cut in timeline
- EventFX, this is most common FX level of common other editors (as so far I know of).
- TrackFX, applied to whole tracks at once.
- OutputFX, applied to whole sequence. You can notice the similar FX icon in one of icons on top of Video Preview window.

>I am using "expand to multiple track" after Multicam Track Cut, because I am changing sometimes my mind and muting different clips, and I can clearly see where the event stops, what is impossible to see in "Create a multicam Track" mode.

I used to do this too before, but right now I can keep working without expanding again.
The Multicam feature in Vegas is basically adding multiple takes in one Event clip, so after you 'merge' the multi-camera tracks, right click on the event, look at submenu Take>, and you can notice all multicamera choices there, you can then choose next camera by simply press T (or Shift T for previous camera / take). Just make sure you write the track descriptive.
You can simply split or duplicate those events just like usual, and add different EventFX on different splitted clips.
Should you need to apply all similar color correction for whole shots, here's where MediaFX can work faster. The only weakness of MediaFX, is if you need to copy-paste the clip to other VEG project, between multiple Sony Vegas instances, you may need to reapply the MediaFX level to the new project. Make sure you save the preset-chain on source VEG project, so you can apply those presets on destination VEG project.

Set

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pavel-soucek wrote on 7/30/2015, 1:32 AM
@set

@musicvid10

thank you guys,
especially to you "set" with more detail answer!

1/ But I still have question, is the GPU switching on/off before the end/rendering of project one way how to avoid color unstability in transition between two colored Tracks? And could we say it is a mistake of Sony Vegas, that it is even worse with GPU, because GPU is supposed to making workflow faster and smoother but it doesn't manage transition between colored Tracks?

2/ Media FX level - how can I compare shots from camera here to give them the same or similar color correction (Two differents brands and settings of Panasonic and Canon)? Can I use something like multicam (please desciribe me concrete setup I am beginner, thanks) i see something with GoPro Studio and Sony Vegas in one video (viz thread: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showprofile.asp?UserID=26407&messageid=929006

3/ If I can

>simply split or duplicate those events just like usual, and add different EventFX on different splitted clips.<

as "@set" wrote I still have problem with unsync marking of events when I try to shift them out of order.


and I have been also using fading out/in as transiton, what it is not so clear for me in "create multicamera mode":


Thank you for your time!