"upconverting" DVD player insists on 16x9

earthrisers wrote on 9/1/2009, 4:27 PM
We do DVD production in both 4x3 and 16x9 formats, depending upon the event and the client. (SD in either case; no HD.)

When I produce a 4x3 DVD and check the result by watching it on our Toshiba Regza 40" flatscreen, the picture stretches out to fill the 16x9 screen, even though the TV menu-setting is set to allow the source material's input resolution to determine the picture aspect.

By experimenting with a couple of different DVD players, I'm pretty sure I've identified our "up-converting" Sony DVD player (NOT Blu-Ray) as the culprit. The DVD itself is indeed 4x3, but the signal that the DVD player passes to the TV is identified (by the TV's indicators) as 16x9 interlaced.
There doesn't seem to be any way to make the DVD player pass through the 4x3 aspect picture without "up-converting".
I don't know if I'm asking for advice here, or just complaining about the annoyance... we tried plugging in an older DVD player with no fancy up-converting, and it seems to keep the aspect properly at 4x3.

I think I'm just complaining...

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2009, 5:30 PM
every DVD player I've tried that upconverts converts it to 16:9. It actually makes sense... you're converting a 720x480 to 720 or 1920 HD signal, what else do we expect? HD is WS only. :)

My solution was to tell the player to not upconvert, that worked just fine.
Laurence wrote on 9/1/2009, 6:55 PM
How do you have the DVD player connected to the TV? HDMI, DVI, component, s-video, composite? Composite or s-video is likely to get the aspect ratio wrong. The higher end connections usually get it right.
earthrisers wrote on 9/1/2009, 9:07 PM
DVD player is connected to the TV via HDMI.

Alas, at least judging by the lack of any pertinent info in the manual or in the menus, there is no way to tell the player NOT to upscale to 16x9.
In my own environment, I can just go ahead and use the TV's settings to force the image back to 4x3... but I'm concerned about clients getting the 4x3 DVD and having an upconverting DVD player, and seeing things all stretched out.
This is probably a minor concern, because from what I've heard/read, most consumer folks who have widescreen TVs let their TVs stretch 4x3 material to 16x9, just because they think the screen should be filled-up.
Some clients probably don't even notice/care that everyone looks kind of fat. Bugs me, though.
On a recent DVD we delivered, we included (on the label) a note saying that the program had been produced mainly for local cable TV, which broadcasts in 4x3, and if your system defaults to 16x9, you might want to force it back to 4x3 for best picture quality.
Terry Esslinger wrote on 9/1/2009, 9:37 PM
Most DVD players I have seen have a setting where you tell it what kibnd of TV you are connecting it to.
wjsd wrote on 9/1/2009, 11:17 PM
every DVD player I've tried that upconverts converts it to 16:9. It actually makes sense... you're converting a 720x480 to 720 or 1920 HD signal, what else do we expect? HD is WS only.

It actually does NOT makes sense. Upconverting has nothing to do with the aspect. All you're doing is upconverting the 480 part to 720 or 1080. The aspect will (should) remain the same. The solution to the original problem is just to tell the DVD player that you either have a 16:9 or 4:3 TV. It's somewhere in the setup menus. If the DVD player switches aspect ratio while upconverting then you should take it back and get something better.
Grazie wrote on 9/1/2009, 11:33 PM
I'm up-converting my own 4:3 content from a SONY DVD player using a HDMI cable, from a DVD a 4:3 DVDA project using 4:3 material that came from a Vegas 4:3 project. Result: 4:3 within a 16:9 Sony BRAVIA screen, meaning, I have black bars on each side of the video.

Somewhere along the line there is a flag either NOT being formed OR if it IS being formed then it is being ignored. Have I got that right?

Grazie

Grazie wrote on 9/1/2009, 11:37 PM
Actually, I have had this with another "personal" DVD player and my ONLY solution was to create a 16:9 project and slap on a nearly BLACK Generated Media track under the 4:3 and render THIS 2-track solution. My experimentation with this was that I need to play with the colour adjusts and the whole thing took me time. DO a search here and you'll find the story.

Grazie
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/2/2009, 5:13 AM
It actually does NOT makes sense. Upconverting has nothing to do with the aspect. All you're doing is upconverting the 480 part to 720 or 1080

makes perfect sense: you're stretching 720x480 4:3 to 1280x720 16:9 or 1920x1080 16:9. Most DVD players (didn't try upscaling on my BD a 4:3) just aren't programmed what to do in most cases. Newer ones very well could be (the nice LG I got ~1.4 years ago didn't).

Check the DVD player remote. All mine have a "resolution" button on them. There should be several res: 480i (SD, used for 4:3 w/o stretching), 480p, 720i/p & 1080i/ip.
tumbleweed7 wrote on 9/2/2009, 6:39 AM

Maybe I missed it, but is there a chance the TV is actually doing the upconversion, "thinking" the HDMI is sending an HD signal?....
Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/2/2009, 7:09 AM

My experience has shown that it IS the TV that's making the change, not the DVD player. I have go into the TV's menu and change from 16x9 to 4x3.


Laurence wrote on 9/2/2009, 7:13 AM
Any chance that the DVD is flagged wrong? If you have an upconverting DVD player connected via HDMI to a widescreen HD TV, it should be getting the aspect ratio right and pillarboxing 4:3 content. The way it knows that it is 4:3 is by the way the DVD is flagged though. Get this wrong and it will stretch your video.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/2/2009, 8:53 AM
My experience has shown that it IS the TV that's making the change, not the DVD player. I have go into the TV's menu and change from 16x9 to 4x3.

but 720 or 1080 *IS* 16:9, if you change it to 4:3 you're not longer upscaling to that res, you're just displaying 4:3 SD on a higher res screen. But you could be correct: the TV could be doing the stretching because it's receiving an HD signal.
earthrisers wrote on 9/2/2009, 1:02 PM
In my particular setup, it's definitely the opconverting DVD player that's doing the conversion to 16x9. (The TV says that it's receiving a 16x9 1080i signal.)The player is (by technology-evolution standards) an older, multidisc CD&DVD player from Sony. I searched multiple times thru the manual and the menus and the remote, and no, you can't force it not to change aspect to 16x9.
At least, not when going thru the HDMI output -- I haven't experimented with going out thru S-Video instead (this player does not have component-out). I most likely won't experiment with that, since I don't want to use the SVid connector. It's not that big a deal to use the TV's controls to force the pic back to 4x3 when playing a 4x3 DVD.
We did experiment with swapping-out the upconverting DVD player to an even older DVD player that has no upconverting feature and no HDMI out (has composite out and component out), and that player DOES send the 4x3 aspect signal to the TV, which then automatically plays it the way it's told to (i.e., in unstretched 4x3, leaving black columns left and right of the picture).

Of course, this COULD still be an unexperimented-with artifact of the signal from the newer player coming thru HDMI, while the older player is component...

We do most of our shooting in 16x9 these days (though still SD), so this isn't often a problem. And when we do shoot in 4x3, we're cultivating the habit of putting a note on the DVD label or package advising customers that it IS 4x3, and that if their TV or player defaults to 16x9, they might want to force-un-stretch the picture back to 4x3 to see a more accurate video image.