Hey Dean... When you convert an .mts into a .m2t file and then try to load the m2t file, how does it load? In particular I am interested in how quickly the file name populates the file name field in the Import Media text boat?

When I convert my m2ts AVCHD files (from my Sony SR11) to m2t files and then try to load the converted file--it seems to take forever for that m2t file name to actually populate that text box. And if I try to import, say...10 of these converted files into the project media via Shift+Click it will often just terminate Vegas. One second it's fine, and then POOF...gone. Vegas goes away without warning. So I try to limit multiple file imports to no more than 4-5 converted m2t files at a time.

Have you had any of this behavior?

TB

> I'm really a little surprised that JohnnyRoy hasn't jumped into the conversation on this thread. He is generally "Johnny on the spot".

Well... I sent emails yesterday to all the appropriate people behind the scenes and pointed them to this thread. I really can't comment on what might be wrong because I had nothing to do with the development of UpShift. It was all done by NewBlueFX under the guidance of VASST and is really NewBlue's problem to fix. I wish I could help but I have no visibility into that code base and have no ability to fix it. (sorry, you know I would if I could) I'm sure they are busy working on it.

~jr

I have UpShift but don't use it for one simple reason:

The mpeg2 clips that UpShift generates won't smart-render no matter what I try.

Instead I generate 25mbps mpeg2 clips from Gearshift or UltimateS 2. Mpeg2 clips done this way will smart-render into a larger project Nicely.

Thanks for chiming in Johnny. It's good to know that the proper people know about this. I have worked on the development of software, and know it can be a tricky business--it seems that no amount of Beta testing finds everything that there is to find. That being said, it does seem that these issues we are seeing are pretty noticeable and reproducible. So I am somewhat surprised that we are seeing them. But as long as the issues get resolved, all's well that ends well...

Thanks again for bringing this to the attention of the developers. My email is listed in the thread, so hopefully someone will contact me and advise how they are going to fix these issues when the problem is resolved. At $49 for the application, it would be nice to be able to use it!

TB

Laurence wrote: I have UpShift but don't use it for one simple reason:

Sorry...I was writing when you posted and didn't see this until now Laurence. If you don't mind, what do you mean by "smart render." I am pretty new to the whole NLE video thing, though I have been using NLE audio editors for years. In SONAR you really don't render anything as much as you just export it--same concept, I suppose. But there's no RAM render or pre-rendering that I know of.

Do you use GearShift to transcode AVCHD files to HDV"? If so, I wonder if maybe I shouldn't just try to use GearShift instead of UpShift... The reason I didn't just buy GearShift is because UpShift does exactly what I need--so it seemed like the logical way to go. I'd bet the developers will be on top of this problem though, and it'll get fixed pretty quickly.

I am interested in hearing more about this smart rendering thing though, if you wouldn't mind elaborating.

Thanks.

TB

I got an email from the NewBlueFX folks today and they pretty much have decided that the issue is with the Vegas 8c update. They are saying that they'll contact Sony about it and see if they can figure out a solution. Until that time we have two choices:

1) First option is to use the "render to wav file" option included on the new beta version. This option will produce a separate wav file from your audio. You'll have to reassemble the video & audio files on the timeline - jeeeez, that sounds like fun huh? I tried this and it worked fine - audio sounded great. Only problem is I sometimes convert 20, 30 up to 40 AVCHD files so that means I would have to spend a lot of time assembling video & audio files! If you'd like the beta version, contact the folks at NewBlueFX.com. I'm kinda surprised that nobody from NewBlueFX hasn't chimed in here regarding these issues and offered a download link for the new beta version.

2) Second option is to revert back to Vegas 8b.

:(

I'm wondering if GearShift can do what UpShift does without the audio issues that I'm experiencing with Vegas 8c. Anybody know the answer to this? I feel like I just wasted money on buying Upshift because now I can't use the product the way I want to. I'd hate to buy GearShift and have the same issue.

I use Upshift to convert my AVCHD files to m2t files and it also converts the interlaced footage to progressive. It did a wonderful job for me until I upgraded to 8c. Does anyone know if Gearshift can handle this without screwing up my audio?

Smart rendering is when the part of the video that is unchanged (no filters, resizes, overlaid text, etc) is copied bit for bit into the new render. Vegas will smart render several formats of video including SD DV codec, Cineform, long GOP mpeg2, and mfx.

Smart-rendering saves both quality and rendering time.

Do a search of this forum and you'll find plenty of information on smart-rendering.

> I'd hate to buy GearShift and have the same issue.

GearShift gives you a 15-day free trial so you can test it out and see if it meets your needs before you buy it.

> Does anyone know if Gearshift can handle this without screwing up my audio?

GearShift is an automation script. It uses Vegas to render the files. If Vegas can't deal with it's own files we have a much bigger problem. ;-)

Having said that, GearShift is a different product with a different purpose. It does not generate m2t files. It generates AVI intermediaries (either Cineform or Sony YUV) and/or DV proxies from HDV, AVCHD, or XDCAM files.

Only you can determine which product is right for your workflow.

~jr

Ah Deanster...the dreaded version 8c problem strikes again!

So here's my recommendation to folks contemplating UpShift: DO NOT BUY IT until these issues are resolved.

With all due respect to SCS and NewBlue/VASST... this is bordering on ridiculous. It's time to make some posts on where things are at. These UpShift issues CAN NOT be "unknown" issues as 8c has been out now, what...4-6 weeks? I just can't accept that this is the first time anyone has heard of this problem--yet there is no announcement or recommendation or warning about problems with UpShift. Sheesh... Fifty buck is fifty bucks. The application should work, or there should be a warning as such.

The suspense is killing me.

TB

Hi Johnny,

I'm new to HD and am working with AVCHD. I looked on the VAAST site at GearShift but wasn't able to get a good understanding of what it would do for me. Could you elaborate a bit on using proxies? I am interested in knowing what, if any, limitations I would encounter when using proxies vs using the (slow to edit) raw mts file. Also, are the proxies generated at a low bit rate so that they are quick to create? Just trying to understand the workflow.

Jerry

Latest email from NewBlueFX:

...."We\'ve learned a little more about it. It seems that the audio data is not being correctly resampled in Vegas. Instead, it is inserting blocks of zeros between blocks of audio data. You might try changing the audio sample rate for your project to a lower number, perhaps 44.1k or 36k to see if that fixes it. In the meantime, we\'re contacting Sony and looking at ways we can change the output of UpShift to work around this."

I just tried this and it didn't seem to solve the issue. Someone else might give it a try and see if it helps them.

I will check tonight Dean, but I *think* my project is already at 44.1KHz... I'll re-post later tonight.

TB

Hey tcbetka,

Don't know if you've contacted NBFX, or VASST with regards to this issue, but I'd suggest that you do something like shoot a message out to VASST with this problem as you can just email them at support[at}vasst|dot|com and see what's up, and they can put the pressure on NBFX to get the stuff done.

I've used the upshift software, w/o any problems on 8c, so it may just be that files from certain cams are giving the problem or something else that is in fact unique to certain users, making this the first time they've seen it.

Dave

> I looked on the VASST site at GearShift but wasn't able to get a good understanding of what it would do for me. Could you elaborate a bit on using proxies?

You bet... the term "proxy" in video editing is used to describe a substitute for the real source file. They are almost always lower quality because they sacrifice quality for speed of editing. Proxies are generally replaced before the final edit with the original footage.

GearShift proxies are like this but with a twist. They are full quality DV Widescreen AVI files. So if you are rendering to SD DVD (and not Blu-ray) you can actually use the proxies in your final render and probably not tell the difference. This is the same as capturing downconverted DV from your HDV camera and using it in your project.

Here is the workflow:

(1) Point GearShift to your source files and have it generate DV Widescreen proxies
(2) Edit your project using the proxies just like normal but at DV speed
(3) Press the "ShiftGears" button before you render to swap to the HiDef source files

What you get is the speed of editing DV with the quality of rendering HD. You can do everything with the DV proxies that you would with the original media (color correct, apply fx, etc.) You can swap back and forth between the DV proxies and HD source as many times as you like to preview your work in HD.

Hope that helps (if not keep asking questions) ;-)

~jr

Wow - that sounds very nice. I may have to give this a try and see how it works out.

Thanks JR!

JR, your description of the GearShift workflow helps a lot. Now, a couple of followup questions:

1. I am assuming to get started I point GearShift at one or more folders of HD clips and tell it these are what I am using on this project. It then creates the DV Widescreen AVI (proxy) files. Next I arrange the proxies in my project as required. Now, what if at this point I decide I need another HD clip added to the project for which I don't yet have a proxy. Can GearShift create and add a new proxy at this point in the project?

2. What if I have a 60 minute HD clip and I know I only need a 1 minute segment of that clip in my project. Is it necessary to render a 60 minute proxy, or can I somehow create a proxy of that 1 minute region?

Jerry

Don't know if you've contacted NBFX, or VASST with regards to this issue, but I'd suggest that you do something like shoot a message out to VASST with this problem as you can just email them at support[at}vasst|dot|com and see what's up, and they can put the pressure on NBFX to get the stuff done.

Thanks Dave, I may have to email them. But I was hoping that Deanster's contacts with them have gotten them tuned in to the issues, and that we'd actually hear from them in this thread. But if they don't chime in soon, I will contact them. I just can't buy that this is only an issue both Vegas 8c--and in fact I bet it indeed has to do with certain cameras. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that there are a lot more people using UpShift with Vegas 8c then there are people using in with 8c and AVCHD files from a Sony camcorder (m2ts files). I bet that's part of the problem right there, but I certainly could be wrong. It just seems logical that someone in the VASST organization would have tried the product with Vegas 8c...and thus you'd think they would have noticed the problems we're seeing. I can't explain the audio issue that Deanster has discovered--but I see it here too.

Come to think of it Dean--what camera are you using? LOL...

I have no ill-will towards NBFX or VASST here at all--I love their product, on paper. The HDV *video* it creates is FAR easier to edit on the timeline, and makes the whole experience more enjoyable. When this issue gets resolved, I will recommend this product wholeheartedly! They could improve the interface somewhat, IMO, but once they get these issues resolved, this will be a dynamite tool for me. I just wish they'd let us know what's going on here. If it wasn't for JR telling us that he contacted them, we'd really have NO idea of whether or not they even cared.

I humbly submit that that's bad business.

TB

> 1. I am assuming to get started I point GearShift at one or more folders of HD clips and tell it these are what I am using on this project. It then creates the DV Widescreen AVI (proxy) files. Next I arrange the proxies in my project as required. Now, what if at this point I decide I need another HD clip added to the project for which I don't yet have a proxy. Can GearShift create and add a new proxy at this point in the project?

Yup. Just open an empty project and tell GearShift to make proxies for the additional files. Then use the new proxies in your other project and shift gears to swap between proxies and HD media. GearShift will find the HD media based on the proxies you use.

> 2. What if I have a 60 minute HD clip and I know I only need a 1 minute segment of that clip in my project. Is it necessary to render a 60 minute proxy, or can I somehow create a proxy of that 1 minute region?

Yes. GearShift also has a Timeline mode. In Timeline mode you do a rough edit on the timeline of the clips you only want part of. Then when you do a render, it will make both DV proxies and HD intermediaries. The intermediaries will only be as big as the trimmed events and they are full quality so you can render with them. I your case I would use the Timeline mode for the one clip that you only need a little of and the Filesystem mode to render just DV proxies for the remaining source files. GearShift will swap both intermediaries and m2t files for the DV proxies and back again.

~jr

TB - the footage that I need Upshift for is from my Sony SR11.

I also just purchased the Sony Z7U which I'm falling in love with more each day. I don't have any issues working with that material however...it's the material from the SR11 that gives me the most trouble.

Johnny, while we're on the subject, it looks to me as though one can do most of what GearShift does using the Render Tab (and its Media Swapper) in Ultimate S Pro 4. Is this basically correct or am I misunderstanding what this tab can do?

If I'm correct, is there anything that can be done in GearShift that you can't do with US4? GearShift looks like it would be easier to use, since it's a tool purpose-designed just for this task, but the more general capabilities of the Render tab look like they can duplicate most of it (in a somewhat more long-winded way).

Mark

Mark, That's a keen observation. The new Render tab in Ultimate S Pro 4 can do everything that GearShift can do and more because you are in control of the templates and you are in control of what media extensions get swapped. It is basically the GearShift code with more flexibility.

As you pointed out the advantage of GearShift is that it is simpler to use because it selects the proper template and does the shifting for you, but if you own Ultimate S Pro, you can do everything GearShift can do.

~jr