Spot|DSE wrote on 1/12/2012, 1:46 PM
What would you like to know? I'm using it :-)

I don't frequent the boards as much as I once did, just not enough time in the day it seems.
JJKizak wrote on 1/12/2012, 3:06 PM
If your using it that's all I have to know.
Woodenmike wrote on 1/12/2012, 3:57 PM
I'm hoping that those hours aren't being spent dealing with all the issues folks have been posting here about! ;-)
Have you updated your machine, because your specs still indicate that you are using XP, and V11 isn't supposed to work on that OS...I'm sure folks here would like to know what you are using now that you are running V11 and if you have experienced any problems or inconsistencies with it. I am looking at building a machine in the near future (as many here are indicating also) and am curious what components are working best with the new release, coming from you with your associations with the developers.
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/20/2012, 6:05 PM
The problems i"m having with V11 are few and far between. Just finished posting a project with 9 hours (each) of multicam ranging from AVC from GoPro's, to splits from 2Kfps to XDCAM EX3 to AVCHD from several CX series cams.

There are a couple plugs that hiccup and/or cause crashes, but once I'm aware of them, I avoid or save before invoking.
I'm using on my old MBPro/boot camp and on a couple of dual quad core systems.
I recently finished writing a new book on Vegas, David McKnight and I took the old Vegas books and put a match them. The new Vegas book tore deeply into compositing, Color correction, yadayada. We put Vegas through its paces. Although the new titler blows (I use the legacy titler or PTT, or NewBlue, or build in AE) most everything else is pretty stable.
Woodenmike wrote on 1/20/2012, 6:57 PM
Thanks for the update...any insight into why so many seem to be having as many issues with this build, where you are not? Although I've purchased V11, I haven't installed it yet as I'm waiting to build the next machine, but reading through the posts here on the forum, there doesn't seem to be a magic bullet to shoot for in system spec's that looks to be foolproof. Always appreciate your knowledge and expertise here, and will be looking forward to seeing the book when it comes out.
johnmeyer wrote on 1/20/2012, 7:16 PM
Two quick questions:

1. What format do you use to archive your AVC or AVCHD footage (for long-term storage), or do you just save the original files on a hard drive, along with the VEG files?

2. Do you have any need for AVC/AVCHD "smart render," and if so do you have any program that can handle your footage?

I ask this because I shoot a lot of "coverage" and don't really want to archive all the original footage. In fact, over half of what I shoot is junk. This is especially true now because my Sony CX700 takes a long time to start recording (2-3 seconds) and when I am "running and gunning" and don't want to miss anything, I just leave it running. Somehow I need to figure out a way to delete all this junk before archiving.

AFAIK, V11 still doesn't do smart rendering on any variant of AVC, but if it does, I figure you would know.
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/20/2012, 8:01 PM
No, it doesn't do smart rendering on trimmed files. I'm not sure how it could, given how it works.
I store the AVCHD as renamed files (it's a bit** finding files when they're all 00XX.mts) and store them as raw files, with veg via the Save As function. I add 20 seconds of head/tail.

In the sport centers we manage video for (over 100), sometimes they're generating several thousand files a day, so using PA2.0 for filemanagement has become second nature.

PeterDuke wrote on 1/20/2012, 8:08 PM
Vegas 9c will smart render AVCHD if you only trim the end but not the start of a clip.

Here are some apps that I believe smart render AVCHD but I haven't used the results with Vegas:
Aunsoft Final Mate
Smart Cutter
VideoReDo H264
Cyberlink Power Director
Corel Video Studio
johnmeyer wrote on 1/21/2012, 12:23 AM

Thanks for that list. You've given me two more to try. Of the one's you listed, here is what I found today. I tried the first three along with one other.

Aunsoft Final Mate - Created files that showed 119.88 fps. They played back at the correct speed, but obviously something wasn't right.

Smart Cutter - Played back in VLC, but not in Vegas.

VideoReDo H264 - Corrupt audio (buzzes and chirps)

I think the problem is that AVCHD apparently has a lot of variations beyond just bitrate and GOP size, and the 59.94 fps progressive structure seems to also possibly be an issue.

Oh, I should mention that I tried (when available) the "cut on GOP boundary" option. For my particular operations, I'm just trying to throw away the 80% of the video that I don't need, and I don't need to cut on frame boundaries. So, true "smart rendering" isn't really needed; just "no recompress" rendering.

I'll try your other two suggestions (Cyberlink Power Director & Corel Video Studio) if I get some time in the next few days:

ushere wrote on 1/21/2012, 12:58 AM
@ jm - iirc corel 'used' to put / break some vegas codecs....
PeterDuke wrote on 1/21/2012, 1:02 AM
"AVCHD apparently has a lot of variations "

Yes. While smart rendering of sorts worked for my Sony AVCHD, I understand that others were not so fortunate with other brands, and probably complained to SCS to fix it. Presumably SCS thought it too hard to fix, so they withdrew what they had.

I never got any smart rendered AVCHD from any other product to smart render in Vegas 9c.
PeterDuke wrote on 1/21/2012, 4:04 AM
Another one to consider is AVS Video Remaker, but I hope you have better luck with the cantankerous product activation than I had.
Hulk wrote on 1/21/2012, 8:28 AM
Smartrender AVCHD is something I've been waiting for....

I don't really understand why this is so difficult? If the video is changed in anyway (fx, transitions..) then it is re-rendered. If it is unchanged from the original file then the original file is spliced into the preceeding video.
PeterDuke wrote on 1/21/2012, 1:27 PM
"I don't really understand why this is so difficult?"

MPEG4 AVC (H.264) has extra complexity over MPEG2. Have you had a look at what is involved? There are no "simple" I-frames as such anymore.

A quote from Wiki:
"In the latest international standard, known as H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, the granularity of the establishment of prediction types is brought down to a lower level called the slice level of the representation. A slice is a spatially distinct region of a frame that is encoded separately from any other region in the same frame. In that standard, instead of I-frames, P-frames, and B-frames, there are I-slices, P-slices, and B-slices."

While Cyberlink offers smart rndering of AVCHD, they caution that the result is currently non-standard and my not be compatible.
johnmeyer wrote on 1/21/2012, 2:23 PM
Due to the fantastic support at VideoRedo (they supported me before I even purchased the product) I was able to work through my issues and it appears to be working perfectly now. I just purchased the program and so far, it is now working just as advertised.

[edit] Phooey, the bugs are back. Won't play in VLC, and there is an audio buzz that replaces some of the audio. I'm submitting a bug report directly to one of the engineers. We'll see what transpires ...
R0cky wrote on 1/21/2012, 3:30 PM
What is "PA2.0 for filemanagement"?

Looking for a good way to manage media.
John_Cline wrote on 1/21/2012, 4:29 PM
VideoReDo is one of a handful of programs that I could not live without. (OK, maybe that's a bit dramatic, I could live without it, but certainly wouldn't want to.)

John, I've not had the audio issues of which you speak, but I would be curious what you and the VideoReDo engineers figure out in case it happens to me in the future..
PeterDuke wrote on 1/21/2012, 4:51 PM
I think VideoReDo's primary focus is editing broadcast transmissions, not video camera recordings, so their product may not be such a good fit to our requirements as you may assume at first.
John_Cline wrote on 1/21/2012, 5:08 PM
Yes, their primary focus was editing/trimming MPEG2 video and I use it all the time to remove commercials from broadcast transport streams but I also use it to losslessly trim files from my Sony NX5 AVCHD camcorder. Works fine for me.
johnmeyer wrote on 1/21/2012, 6:57 PM
I think VideoReDo's primary focus is editing broadcast transmissions, not video camera recordings, so their product may not be such a good fit to our requirements as you may assume at first.Yes, that is historically a very accurate description, and perhaps somewhat true today as well. However, if you go to the page for the version of the product I am using:

VideoReDo TVSuite H.264

you'll find the very first paragraph describing the product is this:

"H.264 / AVCHD editing. With TVSuite H.264, you can edit your H.264/AVC transport, mp4, and wtv files as easily as you edited your older MPEG2 files. "

Now, getting to the heart of what you are saying, perhaps they have focused exclusively on Tivo-like products, and not really paid attention to the various AVCHD formats in camcorders, but they sure are pushing the H.264 capability in their marketing.

It will be very interesting to see what transpires with their support people over the next week or so.

PeterDuke wrote on 1/21/2012, 7:39 PM
I based my comment on browsing through the TVSuite H.264 forum thread(s) soon after H.264 capability first came out. I made a post or two trying to see whether I could get VideoReDo output to smart render in Vegas 9c, and that was when I felt that I was a bit of an intruder. People were courteous and tried to help but I felt that my problem was not theirs. Times may have changed - I haven't been there for some while.
xberk wrote on 1/21/2012, 11:10 PM
>>I recently finished writing a new book on Vegas, David McKnight and I took the old Vegas books and put a match them .. tore deeply into compositing, Color correction, >>yadayada.

Spot. Glad to see you're putting out a new book . Great .. I'll buy it. Your previous editions helped me more than this forum -- but the forum is a close second -- such tremendous people here. Nothing like it out there. Between the two, I'm never really lost with Vegas.

But I'm still learning. And I'm much more ready now to go deeply into Compositing, Color Correction and yadayada .. In fact, I'm really curious to see what yadayada actually is. Oh, I've heard of it. Sure. But I've never used it. I just felt that was for the big guys. I was satisfied with Yada.

Anyway -- I'm looking forward to the new book. I assume it'll be available through Amazon? Search "Yadayada" , right?


Paul B .. PCI Express Video Card: EVGA VCX 10G-P5-3885-KL GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 ULTRA ,,  Intel Core i9-11900K Desktop Processor ,,  MSI Z590-A PRO Desktop Motherboard LGA-1200 ,, 64GB (2X32GB) XPG GAMMIX D45 DDR4 3200MHz 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 Memory .. Seasonic Power Supply SSR-1000FX Focus Plus 1000W ,, Arctic Liquid Freezer II – 360MM .. Fractal Design case ,, Samsung Solid State Drive MZ-V8P1T0B/AM 980 PRO 1TB PCI Express 4 NVMe M.2 ,, Wundiws 10 .. Vegas Pro 19 Edit

Richard Jones wrote on 1/22/2012, 4:58 AM

Delighted to hear you have another book on Vgas due out. Any ideas as to when it will be published, what title will it have(and when it is likely to become avaiolable in the UK.

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/22/2012, 12:39 PM
AVCHD does not have variations.
AVC does.
AVCHD is the spec created by Panasonic and Sony as a joint effort and is the spec is tightly adhered to.
AVC may be in any number of bitrates, wrappers, frame sequences, and can wreak havoc (or not) depending on several variables.