" To add back the mono switch would result in equaling the behavior in Vegas 1/2 - that is changing faders from stereo to mono, etc."

I don't see why the UI has to change. Why not keep the stereo meters, and just have the MONO switch in the mixer header (where the dim switch is) turn Bright Yellow or some such garish color (artfully chosen among milions by the UI team...). I don't see the necessity of having the meters actually change to a single meter when in mono. I can see why that would be a UI design problem. And done this way, it would be trivial to implement.

And Rednroll, most small outboard mixers, like the Mackie or the Behringers, simply don't have a mono switch. These are very common in smaller studios.

Angels

Why not use a Stereo to mono DirectX plugin on the output buss? iZotope Vinyl will do this and it's free. Maybe SF could have a free plug-in that does this. It's not a switch on the app front but at least it'd be an option.

Well it is nice that you know your dB math. Look at how it works in Vegas 1/2 if you have it. This is the right way to show this state in the UI.

Sure we could just do the math on a simple switch on the mixer page. We chose not.

If this is the only thing people can find wrong with Vegas 4, then I can say I am a happy programmer.

I will do my best to get into 4.0a.

Peter

"Look at how it works in Vegas 1/2 if you have it. This is the right way to show this state in the UI."

Really, who decided this is correct? The only thing I can see change in Vegas2 is that the bus faders switch from dual faders to single and the fader level indicator goes from dual to single. I've never seen a dual adjustment master fader on a hardware mixing board magically switch to a single fader, when I hit the "mono" switch. Why would this be correct, when you already have a "lock" faders option? So you're saying it's correct to only have 1 fader and to take away the option of individual adjustment of the mono signal coming out? What happens when someone WANTED to mix mono and feed each mono signal to different devices and wanted this control to get the correct levels to each device? You know...like a live situation where you feed a mono signal to the MAINS and the same mono signal to the musicians monitors. I know the answer...add another bus...why when you wouldn't have too?. Or are you saying the user is a moron, and doesn't know any better to keep the left and right fader at the same level positions when switching to mono, so that levels going to both outputs are the same?


"Sure we could just do the math on a simple switch on the mixer page. We chose not."
This is all everybody in this post is asking for.....it's not rocket science, but as mentioned, it's the little things that count.


"If this is the only thing people can find wrong with Vegas 4, then I can say I am a happy programmer."

No, I would also like a "Bypass bus envelope" option, so if a client asked me to give them 2 mixes...one with a fade out and one without, then I could just hit a bypass button and easily accomplish this. As I've stated...it's funny how the Video bus has a bypass envelope, but it's overlooked on the audio side.



"I will do my best to get into 4.0a."
That's all we can ask for....Don't forget us audio people.

"And Rednroll, most small outboard mixers, like the Mackie or the Behringers, simply don't have a mono switch. These are very common in smaller studios."

I agree...and that's why I said...what does the user who doesn't have an outboard mixer do? Maybe I should have added, "or someone who doesn't have a MONO button on their mixer?"

Peter - thanks for givin' us hope ;) (and for V4 in general)

Rednroll: "I see you are taking my post personally, and I don't think I was really singling you out" fair enough, that's cool.

"How about you pull down the master buss fader, as mentioned, then to get your level back you just double click on that master fader and it returns to 0dB?" You're assuming the output bus is set at 0bB in the first place. Working in 5.1 means you have 4 faders to reset.

"Anyone serious about audio, knows that the master buss is always set at 0dB for mixing...." No, anyone serious about audio knows about good gain structure.

"...and I can reach for my "monitor" volume control and turn it down, and it doesn't effect the MIX."
Maybe I wasn't clear - wasn't talking about altering the MIX, I refering to the way in which audio reproduction/perception changes with volume, and so the need to return the monitoring volume to it's previous level. Also, the Dim switch doesn't affect the rendered output from Vegas while turned on.

"....this should be an obvious feature, then you should understand how one really works. A DIM switch does NOT lower the level of ALL the Busses...etc"

I don't think I said it was an obvious feature. I know how Dim switch works in the traditional mixing environment, thanks. Please point me to the monitor output control in Vegas? Not everyone is using this app with an outboard mixer, as you yourself point out later in your own post.

"....it's implemented WRONG"
Well, if I were a man of politics I'd argue that it is in fact implemented not wrong but 'differently' :)

"...why wouldn't you be complaining that it's IMPLEMENTED WRONG."
It actually works the way I need it to work at the moment. And I think I would suggest improvements rather than simply complain, but perhaps that's where we differ.
Besides, it seems I've already hacked off enough people just because the Dim switch is there - I daren't encourage its developement now, eh?

"Now for a "MONO" switch, what are the work arounds? If you don't have an external mixer, than there isn't one..."
As I mentioned before, there are free plugins available that will give you a mono output.

"What you really need is a way to do an A/B comparison BEFORE you render."
Yes I agree - I think I may have mentioned that in my previous post....

"you would do an A/B comparison by toggeling the MUTE and SOLO button on one of the 2 tracks. Is this practical?"
Actually if you hold down Ctrl the solo & mute buttons act in an 'auto-clear' fashion. Wow, I actually managed to get in some general-use Vegas info in this post!

"How about you pull down the master buss fader, as mentioned, then to get your level back you just double click on that master fader and it returns to 0dB?"

You're assuming the output bus is set at 0bB in the first place. Working in 5.1 means you have 4 faders to reset.

Yes, I am assuming the output fader is set at 0dB, because of good gain structure techniques as you mentioned.

It doesn't matter how many fader you have and you're missing the point. I agree the DIM feature is a good feature, for some users like yourself. Now how about a good work around for a mono switch....oh yeah..I want to rely on a free external plugin, to run all my mixes through.....why don't I just rely on Protools or another editor app for everything? Here's a work around for a 100.1 surround mix if we ever reach that point. Select all buses in the mixer section "click far left bus>Shift-click far right bus) and pull them ALL down in one motion...there's some more "general use" for everyone. Wow fader grouping, what do ya know and you've been agoning over moving individual faders? Oh wait...sorry, you must be using the default surround busses that you can't group. Yes, you will need a DIM switch, or maybe someone should allow grouping of those faders?

"Also, the Dim switch doesn't affect the rendered output from Vegas while turned on."
Why would you need a "DIM" switch when you're rendering? You're not listening to the audio when rendering, so I'm missing your point for having it here.

kinda sucks when someone gives you an unworkable workaround huh?

feel my pain :)

When it's something as easy as this to implement and leave it for a lame excuse...then yes.

Ive been asking for a stereo to mono plug for about two years now I think, to fix the output buss problems, but no luck :(

"Now how about a good work around for a mono switch....oh yeah..I want to rely on a free external plugin, to run all my mixes through....."

You have the mono plug in the chain, open up the FX chain and toggle using the bypass check box.

"click far left bus>Shift-click far right bus) and pull them ALL down in one motion...there's some more "general use" for everyone. Wow fader grouping, what do ya know and you've been agoning over moving individual faders?"

You can't currently group the 5.1 faders in this manner, but I guess you haven't yet tried it. It's the same in Acid 4.0 - can't remember if I mentioned this to SoFo or not as an area to improve. In most cases I'd be more concerned about losing my levels on the busses - this is why I'm glad not to have to move all the faders and remember all the level settings. I guess you could regroup the busses and reset the one bus that you've made a mental note of the level for. Assuming you have one of the busses set at 0dB, then grouping and double clicking on that bus would reset the levels properly too.

"Why would you need a "DIM" switch when you're rendering? You're not listening to the audio when rendering, so I'm missing your point for having it here."
As in you don't have to remember to switch it off before you render. When you drag down the bus faders, you have to remember to reset them first. I guess if the Mono switch gets put in that will behave in a similar way (not changing the render).

>>Really, who decided this is correct?
We did. Whether it is correct is subjective and a matter of opinion.

>>The only thing I can see change in Vegas2 is that the bus faders switch from dual faders to single and the fader level indicator goes from dual to single. I've never seen a dual adjustment master fader on a hardware mixing board magically switch to a single fader, when I hit the "mono" switch.
See, the advatage of software is that we can have virtual faders that can morph into showing their functionality.

>>Why would this be correct, when you already have a "lock" faders option? So you're saying it's correct to only have 1 fader and to take away the option of individual adjustment of the mono signal coming out? What happens when someone WANTED to mix mono and feed each mono signal to different devices and wanted this control to get the correct levels to each device? You know...like a live situation where you feed a mono signal to the MAINS and the same mono signal to the musicians monitors. I know the answer...add another bus...why when you wouldn't have too?. Or are you saying the user is a moron, and doesn't know any better to keep the left and right fader at the same level positions when switching to mono, so that levels going to both outputs are the same?
<<
Now you have another use for this.

Well, I just read about it on this forum, someone here wrote that Acid can reverse audio events non-destructively. I could be wrong.