>>...In my ideal world SF is purchased by a high-end sound card manufacturer with loads of development and marketing money. That way we could all sit back and watch them develop the individual strengths of the two separate programs
<<
Just out of curiosity, name a high-end sound card manufacture that makes lots of money that would classify them as big. (Realize that MOST audio hardware manufactures are small companies.)

IF a soundcard manufacturer buys it, we might have another MOA on our hands. Lets just all send 10 bucks each to Peter, and hope thats enough for HIM to buy it. Hell, if everyone just sends 10 bucks to ME I can eat and wont need any software anymore :)

Hey Peter, I said it was in “my ideal world”, I didn’t say it had anything to do with reality! :-) I was daring to dream about that bit...

I’m going to try not to bleat on endlessly about this stuff. You won’t get an ongoing series of maniacal tirades out of me. (Just perhaps the occasional prod)

Sorry about being so negative, but I am passionate about these little programs; we have been through some amazing times together.

I am so shocked at what happened (or rather at what didn’t happen), that I just need a little time to work through my ‘issues’.

...God I’m such a geek... :-)

>>Sorry about being so negative, but I am passionate about these little programs; we have been through some amazing times together.
<<
Only as passionate as I am about all of this. I never dismiss anyone. I have an idealist vision of ACID and Vegas. There are soooooo many things I want to do. Time is my enemy. It is always a series of comprimises to get a product out the door. We lay frameworks and do the R&D for many new things that don't make it into a release.

>Posted by: SonicPCH (Ignore This User)
>
>Just out of curiosity, name a high-end sound card manufacture that makes lots of >money that would classify them as big. (Realize that MOST audio hardware >manufactures are small companies.)


There is only one, but that's only in the imagination of their marketing dept. And imagine what 'creative' things could happen to V and SF and A. ! That *would* be sad.

The reality is that this is a very small niche market.

geoff

>>There is only one, but that's only in the imagination of their marketing dept. And imagine what 'creative' things could happen to V and SF and A. ! That *would* be sad.
<<
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge <g>

everything initally seems great,and Vegas 4 is a big leap forward. However, I'm sad that rewire hasn't been implemented to hook up ACID and Vegas....

For me that's pretty much the missing piece of the whole puzzle now. The lack of hardware automation also confused me a little. That's clearly a big marketing buzzword right now, and would no doubt sell many more copies.

Jason

Thank you for the surround, so far looking like a usefull upgrade to me. I will add my voice as another person wishing there was midi controller support, but still...
This app literally helps me get better performances out of my clients. Thanks to all at SF for the blood sweat and tears.

PCH wrote:
Only as passionate as I am about all of this.

Mate, it goes without saying, your passion and credibility are beyond question around here.

I never dismiss anyone. I have an idealist vision of ACID and Vegas. There are soooooo many things I want to do. Time is my enemy. It is always a series of comprimises to get a product out the door. We lay frameworks and do the R&D for many new things that don't make it into a release.

I used to be an A&R manager at a major record label. You reckon you have got some stories about never (no matter what you say or do) being able to meet the expectations of the outside world...I’ll trade some with you sometime...I’ll bet you mine win. :-)

Peter said:
">Just out of curiosity, name a high-end sound card manufacture that makes lots of >money that would classify them as big. (Realize that MOST audio hardware >manufactures are small companies.)"

LOL!!! I just read through to the end of this thread. I think I caught that "MOST" plug Peter.

Geoff said:
There is only one, but that's only in the imagination of their marketing dept. And imagine what 'creative' things could happen to V and SF and A. ! That *would* be sad.

Maybe 1 audio card manufacturer, but not only one "Audio Hardware Manufacturer" like Peter described. ;-)

Tascam is not that small a company, and they bought out Gigasampler ...

I've found my new forte - inventing rumours !

geoff

Could you "suckers" here remove your lips from PCH's a$$ for a minute?

Let me quote PCH:

"The technology is never the difficult part. It is the interface that takes time."

I realize I and many others have praised SF for it's UI concentration, and if I were a vidiot I would be jumping for joy over v4...but let's not use this as your new crutch Petey.

Apparently technology IS the difficult part for SF (and that translates to $$$$ baby). Don't blow smoke around here talking about time. I love the UI - but I'd love it if THE OLD SF REGAINED CONTROL - OR SOME SEMBLENCE OF IT.

Time? MORE THAN ADEQUATE TIME HAS PASSED...and you still insist on nickel and diming via vegas and Acid separation, still snub your noses at Rewire support, snub it again at simple midi tracking in Vegas, still FAIL to recognize WHY so many want control support (christ, this is obvious), the list still goes on.

Time. BS!
$ is the item that's now tough to come by with the new SF order...not time (time will come soon after).
The DAW user has pretty much given up on SF by now (How do I know this? Read any related magazines, ask around many studios, inquire on many home studios, ad-nauseum. That's how I and John Q Public know why. Man it's amazing to see how many idiots there are who think this forum is where it all starts and ends).

Now we see the forum feeders here stroking YOUR ego over all this?
For doing WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING LONG AGO AND STILL ARE NOT FULLY DOING AS FAR AS MANY OTHERS "WHO DON'T POST HERE" FEEL?
Again, if I were a vidiot, I'd help stroke you silly...until then, this upgrade friggin blows.
Say whatever you want back to "ME", who gives a crap? But what can you say back about the rather sad facts at hand?
What, back to the UI again?

Time. I got your TIME right here. Same goes to all you hamhead strokers out there. This upgrade is falling in line with past VA/VV upgrades: UN-ACCEPTABLE for the SF I used to know.
I love the UI - yeah I've stated that. But I also ask (again) how long you think this will supercede the features you fail to incorporate?


BTW: There Weevil, you silly little suck up (and why?? is it getting you anywhere? anything?)
Now you have a reason to bring my name into one of your posts.
LOL!!

JoeD

<<Thanks to all at SF for the blood sweat and tears>>

Uh, yeah....

Let's be realistic, it's a GREAT upgrade for the vidiots, and a "flacid" upgrade for the DAW user.
Can we be realistic for one f-ing minute here?

I would like PeterH or an SF rep to visit the many other Pro Audio sites and promote a sentence or two of VV and respond to the feedback. He'd be up to his earballs in muck.
Naw, it's safer to hide here within their own forum.
It's much like those ego-centric musicians we always come across: " You sound great. No, YOU sound great. But I think YOUUUU really sound incredible. No way, YOUUUU sound incredible" (repeat this till someone pulls the trigger).

JoeD

LOL!!! I've never enjoyed the rantings of a raving organ player so much in my life as in those past 2 posts. Must be all the sexual frustrastions breaking loose....chicks dig the organ player don't they Angelica? ;-)~

Fundamentally I agree with you Joe.

The lack of some key features in Vegas and ACID are really limiting the programs ability to pull in new customers. Until that situation changes, commercially the programs will almost certainly continue to tread water. I don’t think you have to be Einstein to figure that out, it’s pretty obvious. I’m sure Peter agrees with this too.

The problem is that you don’t provide any practical answers.

It’s patently obvious that when Peter is talking about time he is really talking about money.

I don’t know if you have noticed but the company is a financial basket case...Bloody hell the boss has borrowed a million dollars from his brother just so they can keep the doors open.

And before you get started; it’s not the audio/video production side of the business that has been haemorrhaging bucket loads of cash. Their audio/video stuff has been making them money; unfortunately not nearly enough to come anywhere near covering their massive losses in other areas.

But, it doesn’t matter how or why they got into this position. All that matters now is that they are in it; and unless you can come up with a genius method of instantly producing millions of dollars from thin air that is not going to change.

You want them to spend a massive amount more on development and a massive amount more on marketing so they can eventually shift more units. I’d love them to do that too. Where do you suggest they get that money from?

putting in features that would keep professional users from turning their noses up at Vegas would be a good bet. Seems like this version is off to a good start, but probably a place it should have been a few years ago. Maybe in this way at least some buzz would go on and make investors more hopeful. Being completely off the radar or " you mean that video app? " doesnt help much Im sure. Maybe ending development of acid as a separate app and addding to vegas instead could free up money ? or maybe that would cost money? Noone complains about the time spent on the video side of things, or the " bloat " it causes. How about catching the audio up to the video for a while? Or is the video side what pays the bills?

"Or is the video side what pays the bills?"

Did they ever ask you, if you bought the app for Video or Audio? So they probably don't know for sure....there's also the users who buy it for both.

But here's a little insight for you, that might answer your question, if you ever had a "probs and stats class".

The Vegas forums split into seperate forums on 4/12/02. Since then there's been 3984 "Topics" posted on the Video forum. On the Audio forum there's been 775 Topics, probably half of them by you. So if you go by the laws of average using a random sample of people, you would have to say the Video side sells more copies. Or you may conclude that more Video editing people have internet access, than audio people.....or Video editing people don't have a clue what they're doing and have to post 5 times as many questions as us audio people. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

uh, what? (I give up Redhead...who is this mysterious "angelica"? And how does my hard on relate to any of this again?)

Yeah, anyways...

You're seeing the exploded posts from the vidiots because of ALL the reasons mentioned:

- vidiots eventually have to deal with the audio at some point, but turn to their same ol same ol buds in their forum. Most, I'm assuming, pretty much understand enough to pump out decent audio anyways though.

- they're comprised of pros to home hobbyists...and vegas video features are rather new to them and provides them with myriads of different ways to accomplish video editing, production, fx, etc. Thus, the explosion of questions.

- the audio end of things hasn't radically changed - no rewire support, no control support, no midi,etc. To REALLY do the stats you would have to take all posts from SForge, CDA, Acid, search for audio related posts in the video area...and then make a guesstimation of what % of users there are. Or DIDN'T YOU TAKE THE CLASS ON "gathering the obvious 101"?

What are my suggestions? Are there any suggestions that can help at this point? Probably not. The new SF has made the bed (and marketing helped...big time).

No. It's now better to ask, what are the hopes. Actually at this point in the game - i HOPE V4 GOES OVER BIG TIME WITH THE VIDIOTS. This "may" give V5 a fighting last chance.

But reality is the focus. I hope that whoever aquires these apps is one who wants to challenge the competition (and with VV UI, it could be VERY interesting), listens intently to customer desires, and continues with the same intensity on UI design and functionality. Sf is really only covering the latter.

That's it.

JoeD

Hmm im not coming back from SX

Angelica said:
Or DIDN'T YOU TAKE THE CLASS ON "gathering the obvious 101"?

Obviously you didn't. If you had then maybe you could have put together a better synopsis than I did in the 5 minutes I spent on looking at the obvious. Like any of your posts there is NO substance. If you have all the answers then why don't you give an answer for once, instead of more questions?

"To REALLY do the stats you would have to take all posts from SForge, CDA, Acid, search for audio related posts in the video area."

No Sh*t Sherlock.....but that would give you an Audio Users vs. Video users stat, which really has no relevance as to if a user bought Vegas for Audio or Video purposes, which was the original question. I'm thinking if a user was to buy the app for Video, then they would probably spend more time in the "Video forum" and yes probably have some audio questions along the way, just like the people who use the app for Audio ask their questions in the "Audio forum". Maybe you missed the class on "common sense 101" jack ass.

I'm sorry little Joey can't come out and play.....he's playing with his "organ" (insert wakka wakka wakka sound fx here).

Does it friggin matter the ratio of PURCHASE INTENTION?

My point was, if they're working with audio and using VV (doesn't matter if they work with video as well), then there is a user right there.

Even more obvious is the total wank level of the question itself. SF is soooo far past this point it's unreal. I think a better solution is to figure out who or how to guide the right buyers to the table.

Any thoughts on that? There's the million dollar question.

JoeD

the right buyer is ... ME! I just need a REALLY big loan!