SHTUNOT wrote on 3/2/2004, 9:33 PM I have to go out and buy a mackie hui... ;)

stakeoutstudios wrote on 3/3/2004, 12:27 AM
excellent! Next month is good timing. They're keeping a lot of features secret there....

billybk wrote on 3/3/2004, 5:26 AM
Great news, looking forward to V5's unveiling at NAB next month!

Billy Buck
Mincer wrote on 3/3/2004, 7:49 AM
the link seems to be gone....what did it say?
rique wrote on 3/3/2004, 7:53 AM
"The latest version of the Vegas software increases its functionality with even more sophisticated features, including 3D planar motion, film-style 5.1 surround panning, external control surface support, Loops for ACID ™ "loop property" recognition, customizable keyboard mapping, real-time event reverse, network rendering, Sony DSR-DU1 and DSR-DR1000 disc recorder support, J-H3 HDCAM player support and much more."

"New features in the DVD Architect 2 software include: subtitle and alternate audio track support, enhanced disk optimization tools, external monitor previews, support for 24P DVD encoding and much more. "
filmy wrote on 3/3/2004, 8:09 AM
yeah the PR has been pulled, even the box shot. A bit of a "Whoopsie" on the PR front in even putting it out it seems. About all that is left on the site is this:

"Sony will introduce version 5.0 of its Vegas software, the latest upgrade to its award-winning, state-of-the-art video and audio non-linear editor, at NAB in Las Vegas next month."

And even that info is hard to find.
Mincer wrote on 3/4/2004, 6:50 PM
Don't see anything in there about ReWire, or the aboility to route VSTi output as audio. If Vegas 5 doesn't add it, I'm afraid I might have to wrestle with Sonar.
klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 6:51 AM
I can't imagine they wouldn't implement Rewire after the furor over it last time and after putting it in Acid (where it doesn't belong). But who knows...
pwppch wrote on 3/5/2004, 8:42 AM
Why doesn't ReWire support belong in ACID?

klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 10:08 AM
I guess I mean that as Acid already has VSTi's and already has MIDI it has a less pressing need to interface with other applications that perform that function.
Vegas, on the other hand, is a natural host for Rewire -- it has no MIDI or softsynths of it's own and is a perfect mixing/audio recording/organizing platform.. Mixing and recording are both awkward by comparison in Acid.
So it's not that Acid *shouldn't* have Rewire... as far as I'm concerned, everything should have Rewire (like cars, governments, people, you name it... )
klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 10:09 AM
And I forgot... you're right. Acid *should* have Rewire.... to communicate better -- a lot better -- with Vegas.
Mincer wrote on 3/5/2004, 10:53 AM
Or better yet, does the new Vegas have ReWire or not?
PipelineAudio wrote on 3/5/2004, 11:44 AM
acid still doenst have the type of midi piano roll editor I would expect from sonic foundry. In fact its damn hard to use, and the OPT plug one isnt even made anymore. I would love to see an elegant simple, very customizable piano roll editor in acid. Even Sonar's is a little better, and right now sonic foundry whoops sonar by like 500% in every other GUI function
klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 12:10 PM
I bought Sonar Producer for an OMF project (it was cheaper on the special deal than buying converting software) and to use with softsynths and Reason and it's done the job. But I couldn't agree more about Vegas and it's interface superiority. If Vegas 5 has Rewire and Vsti's -- or even just Rewire -- I'll probably put Sonar back in the box for special occasions.
As far as using Acid for Midi? "Crude" doesn't begin to describe it.
Rednroll wrote on 3/5/2004, 1:09 PM
I have mixed feelings for both sides of this. My feeling is that Acid is the right tool for rewire, VSTi, and midi. That's probably because it fits my workflow mentality. My feeling is that Acid is a great preproduction tool, for building your music, so things like Midi, Acid looping, Virtual synths, change tempo points and rewire are a no brainer for me, because I consider these pre production tools. Once you're all done with the preproduction, then to me it's time to record everything to audio tracks within Acid and then export from Acid and import it into Vegas, where then it's time to record your vocals and live instruments, then edit and do the final mix. So for my workflow, I would just like an easier way to export from Acid and import into Vegas, rather than rendering individual tracks and then opening them in Vegas. I don't disagree though, that having rewire and things like VSTi in Vegas isn't necessary for some users, it just doesn't fit my workflow.

I definately, agree that the MIDI tracking UI in Acid is pretty bad. It is at an infancy stage though, and hopefully will progress with time. Until then, I'm still using Opcode's Studio Vision for midi, which runs pretty well with Acid syncing to beat clock.
klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 1:52 PM
In most of the projects I do preproduction *is* production; there is no need for an artificial line drawn between the two: the more integration the better. With rap and r&b it's obvious, but it goes further than that. Last year I did the music for a Discovery channel show and I was constantly having to close Vegas and open Reason (they won't share an Asio driver well at all) to create parts and change things. Then I would open Acid to do a B4 (Vsti) part and deal with that clumsiness -- you need to navigate a dialog box just to record MIDI -- render the part, close Acid and reopen Vegas (THEY don't share audio ports well either, at least not on my system) to play guitar or banjo or bass or whatever, and so forth. If the programs had worked together, with Vegas being the centerpiece and all the audio coming into one place the process would have been much easier.
I agree that everyone has -- and is entitled to -- their own way of working. It's just that they can easily co-exist.
Rednroll wrote on 3/5/2004, 2:36 PM
I agree, and they do coexist as one, thus midi beat clock. Have you tried that instead of jumping through the hoops you are? Sure rewire is another solution to the same means, but midi beat clock and smpte have been around for years before rewire was even thought of and have been the solution.
Ben  wrote on 3/5/2004, 3:08 PM
Reading between the lines on Red's comments - seeing as he's been beta testing Vegas 5 - I guess we can unfortunately conclude that Vegas 5 doesn't include either midi or rewire.

If so, I believe this to be an incredible shame and enourmous oversight on the part of Sony. Indeed it makes me think that they're not interested in taking Vegas to its full audio potential; video again seems to reign supreme. Control surface support, in whatever form it takes, and UI enhancements, as great as these things are, simply aren't enough.

No matter what your way of working, there can't really be any doubt that for Vegas to seriously compete on the audio side with other leading DAWs, it's got to catch up with midi etc. I've been trying to think of competing software that doesn't have midi, and I can't come up with anything. In fact Pro Tools and Samplitude both started, like Vegas, as audio-only apps and have evolved with midi, rewire, etc to become more than that. Like Kylon, and I'm sure many, I don't draw a line between pre and post production in my work; that traditional way of working just often doesn't cut it.

I'm of the opinion that Sony would get enourmous respect and we'd get great benefits if they'd strip the video out of Vegas - keeping a video-only version with limited audio - and fuse together Vegas and Acid to make one hell of an app.


(Btw Red, thanks for all your 03D help a while back. An engineer friend came over to take a look, and in transit somehow a capacitor had been knocked and was shorting. He re-soldered it, and thankfully everything's fine!)

klyon wrote on 3/5/2004, 3:18 PM
The timing just isn't as good, even in an ideal situation... which Vegas/Acid/Reason in one computer isn't. Plus, no co-renders, inability to affect things in the same program, etc.. I mix in the box and trying to use the programs at the same time with timecode means not hearing them through the same speakers (not to mention not right in synch).
Using timecode is a kluge from the past -- and believe me, I had to wrestle that beast and do that dance for years, as I'm sure you did. With the best gear it worked, but still the resolution wasn't as good as even the cheapest stuff and Rewire.
No, Rewire and using timecode are not *equal* solutions, not even close.
heinz3110 wrote on 3/5/2004, 5:17 PM
>>'m of the opinion that Sony would get enourmous respect and we'd get great benefits if they'd strip the video out of Vegas - keeping a video-only version with limited audio - and fuse together Vegas and Acid to make one hell of an app.<<

Well then.Merge Acid with Vegas and strip the video part and call it Vegas Music (or something stupid like that.) .Leave the current Vegas and all it's video enhancements and call it Vegas Video (mmm..deja-vu?)

Mincer wrote on 3/5/2004, 8:37 PM
Well, being that Sony isn't here to definatively say, and that it wasn't mentioned in the press release, we can bet that there is no ReWire support. With Sonar doing video these days, the only exclusive thing Vegas has is its GUI, which is awesome. It is a shame to give that up because Vegas isn't really an audio program anymore.
pwppch wrote on 3/5/2004, 8:41 PM
"With Sonar doing video these days..."
Your kidding, right?!
klyon wrote on 3/6/2004, 2:39 AM
Vegas is still an audio program, and a good one. And there's nothing wrong, to my way of thinking, with having video capabilities in it. I just believe that with a step toward better connectivity -- rewire and OMF support, at least as far as audio is concerned -- it could be the perfect platform. It doesn't need to do and be everything; it just needs to be able to talk to programs that do what it doesn't.
Call it delegation.
Acid is great loop composition tool that is a crappy audio recorder and has become in addition a crappy midi sequencer. It's great at what it does best... which is all it should have to do.
I don't want to see Vegas turned into that or into Logic or Cubase. Just let it speak correctly and fluently to the applications that handle tasks other than it's own.
Isn't that obvious?