Vegas 8 and AVCHD

LeslieD wrote on 5/5/2009, 8:49 AM
I'm looking at buying the Panasonic HMC 150 for creating wedding videos. I am using Vegas 8 and have heard that AVCHD does not work well with Vegas. I am also working on a low powered computer that is only used for Vegas and has just been factory restored making it way faster, but still it's just a Pentium 4, 350W PS, 200GB internal Hard Drive, 3 externals (1TB, 500MB, 256MB hard drives)...Can't think of anything else you would need to know to accurately answer my questions. Just ask if you have more questions. This computer has worked on High Def projects, but with the use of Gearshift.

Ok, my questions (please answer in Layman's terms, there are some technical things I am not too familiar with...THANKS!):

1) Does AVCHD have a hard time working in Vegas 8? What are the specific problems? I've heard it does better with Vegas 9, but just upgraded to Vegas 8 and didn't really want to have to upgrade again so soon.

2) Is my computer too low powered to work with AVCHD? Any suggestions about what I need to upgrade in order to make it high powered enough?

Thanks in Advance!
Leslie

Comments

rmack350 wrote on 5/5/2009, 9:29 AM
1) Yes, Vegas has a hard time with AVCHD, unless you build/buy a pretty fast computer.

AVCHD is very CPU intensive for Vegas and pretty much every other NLE. I was just talking to an FCP hobbyist yesterday on a shoot and he said that the most common solution there was to convert everything to ProRes. In Vegas, the most common suggestion is to convert all your AVCHD clips to Cineform.

"Better AVCHD support" is a bullet point for VP9 but I wouldn't buy a camera based on that. If you have your heart set on AVCHD then wait for a few weeks for VP9 to release and for users on this forum to start their "critiques" (AKA Post-Release Litany of Complaints)

2) Maybe someone with a similar computer should chime in about whether yours is fast enough. What we're hearing from most people here is that AVCHD works very well on Core I7 systems running Vista-64 and sporting 4 or more GB of RAM.

I'm not sure how your system would perform with HDV media. VP8 does much better with HDV than AVCHD but faster hardware is still better. If your computer can work with HDV and you don't want to spend money on a new machine and VP9 then I'd be looking at HDV cameras, not AVCHD.

That's my 2 cents. Wait for VP9 before buying a camera.

Rob Mack
rs170a wrote on 5/5/2009, 9:32 AM
Sony's minimum recommendation for AVCHD is a 2.8 GHz processor so your computer is woefully underpowered.
Users here and on other Vegas forums are recommending a minimum of a quad core CPU and preferably an i7 to be able to work comfortably with AVCHD files.

Mike
ingvarai wrote on 5/5/2009, 12:00 PM
Let me chime in here, with my pure personal and absolutely unprofessional views on this, since I am a newborn video enthusiast.
A few days ago I got my own Panasonic HMC 151, and I am very satisfied with it. This Panasonic camera is an entry level pro cam, yes, it is my first professional video camera, so I have nothing to compare with. But I really like it, it is another world compared with my previous Canon HF 10, how good this camera also is.

Look at the thread here where I narrowed down my search with excellent help from other enthusiasts and professionals who hang out here: Camera thread

One of my requirements was recording to a memory card. There are so many advantages of this vs tape, that for my use, I really wanted this. Myself I run Vista 64 bit on a Pentium 2.6 Quad Core. And I am a happy Vegas user editing AVCHD files.

What strikes me is that if you really consider buying a Panasonic HMC 150, I would advice you to consider upgrading your computer, not downgrading your camera. With the PC you describe, you will hit the wall with other things than AVCHD. FX plug-ins, sound editing, you name it.

ingvarai
rmack350 wrote on 5/5/2009, 1:36 PM
I would advice you to consider upgrading your computer, not downgrading your camera.

Very true. Sometimes my advice takes too much consideration of what I think you want to hear, so here's what you don't want to hear. You should upgrade your computer, no matter what, and probably upgrade Vegas to 9.0 if the reports are good after people have used it.

You could get by with less than an I7, especially if VP9 works better with AVCHD, but the i7 would probably give you more years of service.

Rob
TeetimeNC wrote on 5/6/2009, 5:03 AM
Leslie, I have a HMC150 that I have used for a few weddings. I now use a fast i7 computer, but my first wedding was edited on a 3GHz Pentium 4. It was a painful experience editing AVCHD on that computer, but what I did was transcoded to the Cineform intermediate codec included in Vegas Pro 8. Then, working with the intermediate I was able to edit just fine on the Pentium.

I also experienced problems when transcoding the AVCHD unless I used the batch render script. For some reason, this would always work, whereas manually rendering sometimes didn't work. I can't explain why it would make a difference and your mileage may vary.

I definitely agree with the other poster who said don't choose a lesser camera to accomodate your PC. I think the Cineform approach can work for you with your current PC. Also, you could consider purchasing Cineform NeoScene which gives you even better quality intermediate clips. It costs about $100 from VideoGuys.com. I don't yet own this but plan to purchase it soon.

Jerry
LeslieD wrote on 5/6/2009, 9:21 AM
I know I need to update my computer. I'm very limited with this underpowered computer. I just wanted to figure out if I can edit AVCHD at all on this computer, or if I will have an immediate need to update my computer when I purchase the Panny 150. Also, I want to know ahead of time that purchasing this camera will require me to update my computer so that I can work that into my budget.

Glad to know that Vegas 8 can work with AVCHD files...that's a relief!

If I rebuild my computer around an i7 processor and stuck with Vegas 8, do you guys think I will still need NeoScene?

And do you guys prefer NeoScene or Gearshift?
ingvarai wrote on 5/6/2009, 11:38 AM
Leslie,
You wrote please answer in Layman's terms so I am not sure how much into the details I can go. NeoScene and GearShift are in my opinion nice-to-have but not must-have. Myself I render intermediate clips as AVC files, I use my own template which just forces the bitrate down. With a low bitrate, I have intermediate clips of the same breed, the same aspect ratio, they are even smaller than the full AVCHD files. And - they play back in real time, even with FXes added etc.

ingvarai
ritsmer wrote on 5/6/2009, 1:47 PM
Leslie started this thread asking Does AVCHD have a hard time working in Vegas 8?

Since AVCHD is not always used as a fixed standard by some camera manufacturers - and so having something like a 1:10 ratio between the "best" and the "worst" AVCHD files, it is impossible to answer this.

Pls. see this thread: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=651517&Replies=1

TeetimeNC wrote on 5/6/2009, 1:54 PM
I think Leslie is getting useful answers. He is enquiring about the AVCHD from the HMC150, and at least two of us who have responded with Vegas 8 experience with the Panny HMC150 flavor of AVCHD.

Jerry

Since AVCHD is not a fixed standard it is impossible to answer this.
TeetimeNC wrote on 5/6/2009, 1:58 PM
I don't have Vegas 9 yet, but for only $185 to upgrade, I think I would definitely consider upgrading too. You can wait until after May 11 and see how we early adopters fare with V9.

Jerry

If I rebuild my computer around an i7 processor and stuck with Vegas 8, do you guys think I will still need NeoScene?
Kevin Mc wrote on 5/6/2009, 5:26 PM
I am shooting AVCHD on my Pani AG-HMC70P and using Vegas 8.0c to edit on a Quad-core 2.83 w/8GB RAM. I used CFF Explorer 7 to increase Vegas' 2GB memory limit (see here: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=650203). My system has absolutely no problems editing and rendering large AVCHD clips. I have single clips that are around 50 minutes long (1 clip) taken of speakers at a real estate conference, and Vegas handles these brilliantly, even with color correction, lighting level, and Neat-Video effects in play. The Neat Video effect does cause some slow downs during rendering - but I just render before I go to bed and the video is waiting for me in the morning :).

I concur with what others have said ~ consider upgrading your computer. Even with Vegas 9, I think working with AVCHD requires more processing power.

--Kevin