I currently have Vegas v7, Premiere Pro and the latest Avid Media Composer. These NLEs certainly cover different parts of the NLE price spectrum. I have the three icons on the desktop and I can choose whichever one I'd like when I start a project. 95% of the time I launch Vegas. It just works so much better and faster than either Premiere or Avid. You are, of course, free to do whatever you want. I'm sticking with Vegas.

John

i have vegas 6 & am only currently limited in what I can do by time & imagination. I really can't think of any major improvements I'd want. There's things I'd like but not even a hint of a reason to go to another NLE in the foreseeable future.

I was a staunch Premiere Pro user since version 1.0 until I finally got the clue with Vegas. For the type of work I shoot and edit as a solo video journalist, Vegas is FAR more efficient in virtually every facet of the projects I produce - especially when editing in the field on a laptop.

One is free to choose whatever tool they want to use - and some have chosen recently to move to other applications. I have found that I am more productive, my work flow is more efficient and I do more with less in Vegas.

Cliff Etzel
bluprojekt

I have different NLE's too, but I think that Vegas is the one that been the most stable, and that is for sure a big thing for me. Stable easy to use and get the jobs done.
I still have to get 100% used to the way transitions work with the overlap thing thoug ;-)

What I would like though in a future version, would be a simple write to DVD directly from timeline, I often would use this feature to get a draft to a client or just to watch the edit on a big screen, but well we'll have to wait and see.

/Ulf

Well I wouldn't say the improvements from V4 to V7 have been small, the addition of BWF and XDCAM support plus finally getting SDI to work right are nothing to make little of. Plus the basic editing enhancements in V7 certainly keep me happy.
Never worried about the text thing, you want better, go buy something, like ProAnimator or Cayman or Bluff or whatever suits your needs.
But there's the problem!

Take a look at PPro + AE Pro. There's barely a plugin made that doesn't work with them and I'm not talking glitz here, I'm talking serious tools that do seriously useful things. Need a decent keyer, Keylight looks pretty damn good and I was thinking to buy it, except it ships as standard in AE Pro. That saved me some money. Want some serious pixel warping, have a look at Tinderbox from The Foundry, gives you lightning, REAL stars (from star charts), real Bad TV, debanding, Mosaic, the list is huge. That's just from one vendor and there's lots, lots more.
The big question is why aren't any of these or things like them available for Vegas. One could be forgiven from thinking that SCS have worked actively over the years to stop this from happening.
Just to get back to the basics though, the opposition ships with quality printed manuals and a decent slab of training material and heaps of more free stuff on line, just how good the product is I'm still a long way from knowing for sure but at least they've made me start with the feeling that they care about my experience with the product.
I'm not bitching though, I've made back 100 times the purchase price of Vegas, it's to me still the most fun NLE out there, none of the stuff from elsewhere that I've been talking about can be used lightly, the financial cost of those tools is a very minor part, I expect to have to devout very serious amounts of time to learning them.
And that's another thing that we all need to factor in, seriously good looking tools like 3D text generators take a serious amount of time to get the best out of.

Bob.

Ken! You old tease you!!! - As has been "proffered" already. Get the demo when it happens. decide and then either drop some money or not.

But reeeeeally WHAT is your question about, when you knew you were going to get this response?

You ole tease you!! Just what is it you are after? I suppose bubble and chat might have an effect on. . hmm.. now let's see . . the Stock Market?

Regards,

Grazie

PLEASE:

Update the titler and credit roll generator. Isn't it about time that the Vegas 3.0 titler and credit roll generator be updated??????

How many years have we been asking for this anyway?

John

> But reeeeeally WHAT is your question about, when you knew you were going to get this response?

Presumably Ken is assuming that, with the snail's-pace development of recent years, Sony Creative Software is not long for this world, and wondering how many other people share his anxiety. Most people I know - Vegas users or otherwise - seem to...

...and while the program managers and developers remain so aloof (or just plain invisible) it only makes matters worse.

Let's just hope that they have been busy rewriting the Vegas code base to get rid of the 8-bit VfW interface, and that they will announce Vegas 8 at IBC in September...

Hmmm, it's been a little quiet on the Vegas front lately, must be a sure sign that the sky is falling!

I have no reason whatsoever to think that Sony is about to let Vegas die a slow death. In fact, based on what I observed at this year's NAB, quite the opposite. I suspect the next version of Vegas will be a significant update and they can't simply develop this stuff overnight. Is the current version of Vegas really preventing you from getting your work done?

John

Is the current version of Vegas really preventing you from getting your work done?

Well, if I didn't have a choice, I certainly could do all my work in Vegas and just accept the quality.

From my other post in the "Red Giant drops Vegas..." thread:

Vegas' competitors realized long ago that Microsoft wasn't about to come out with a video interface suitable for professional use, so they looked elsewhere in order to get what they felt was absolutely, positively necessary: 10-bit video.

Is the current version of Vegas really preventing you from getting your work done?

yes. 2 black frames with regularity. i really don't have the time nor the patience to put up with what is obviously a confirmed bug.

don't get me wrong - i think vegas is fantastic, as i though betamax / high band / hi8 / beta / dv, etc., etc., was when they came out. but as noted with regularity, no-one at sony seems to be listening to it's users, eg. titler, nor responding to this two frame problem. all it would take is a line from sony saying they're looking into it (they don't even have to admit anything!), and i'd be happy.

i have always worked with what i perceived to be the best tools at the time. when those tools lost their competitive edge, it was time to look to others. and let's face it, there are a plethora of 'professional' alternatives around right now, pp3, avid, edius, speededit just to name a few. whether they're as comfortable to use as vegas is another matter. but let's face it - we're, by now, a very savvy crowd, we know the options and brand loyalty is something we create, not follow.

putting on a life jacket, but not jumping just yet.

btw, any suggestions as to where to jump ;-)

leslie

Is the current version of Vegas really preventing you from getting your work done?

Yes, worse, it's come close to costing me customers and large sums of money.

I'll accept crashes, I'll forgive what Vegas can't do but when I cannot trust what it does with no sign of any real effort to fix the problems this says two things to me. The developers don't care and whatever they're doing for testing falls short of the industry standards. Handing out free upgrades to a select few in return for a quick drive around the block is in no way a testing program.

Bob.

Actually I kind of feel sorry for the Vegas programmers. They have to evaluate every new piece of software, software upgrade, equipment upgrade, (motherboard, memory, processor, bios), OS upgrades, burners, firmwares, third party pluggins, and all of the "qwatrillion" combinations of the same equipment and still make their software perform like a rock. Sometimes they miss a couple things. Sometimes the greatest computer quad programming code ever invented "your DNA code" misses some things too.
JJK

i agree, programming a sophisticated nle (or any other multimedia software) can't be easy. but they're getting paid for it, and introducing bugs is not quite the same as curing them.

back in the good / bad old days, when a vtr cost $20k>, the only thing i feared was a mis-threaded tape (in over 30 years i can count the number of tape screw ups on my hands and feet - and most of them were with ampex). now i have my studio in a box, and i now edit every day with the fear that i'm going to waste time over 2 black frames....

sony have been great in the past fixing the bugs that caused me grief (tc entry in 6, and a variation in 7d) both of which they fixed. but introducing new bugs such as this is bad form....

again, i appreciate it ain't as simple as falling off a log, but i'm the one floundering in the water....

leslie

It's sad, but, this is de riguer for small technology developers that get noticed and bought by big corporations. I suppose, I should be greatful to Sony for honoring, at least, my old Sonic Foundry license. Anyone familiar with ADOBE"s purchase of Seriousmagic's DVRACK, knows that, while Adobe honors the old SM license, trying to get it activated is enough to make you cry.

Sony, obviously, isn't getting enough return on their investment in Vegas to warrant continued development of the product. Oh well, I grieve at the loss and will move on to something else.

Software testing is no simple matter and it's not cheap either. I test the code that I write, I pass it onto a team of dedicated testers. I'd estimate that it costs more to test my work than it costs to for me to write it. Not only do they firstly write extensive test cases, they document every step in the testing process. When they've done testing the new features they go back and do regression testing to ensure nothing that used to work got broken. If a bug makes it into the field my average turnaround time to fix it is 48 Hours.

Of course things go wrong, no major application has ever been released that didn't have bugs. It's what you do about them that's the issue. First and most important is to warn your user base. Second is to demonstrate actively that you're working to fix them. Users should not have to wait for multiple version upgrades to get faults fixed.

Bob.

getting on the life jacket here too..

so of all the other nle's, any suggestions in order, for those who've really used them (I haven't) as to which is closest to vegas' ease of use, and is the best platform for doing multicam edits?

the right answer I suppose is, download and try all the trial versions of everything to see what you like best... any favorites so far, for other nles?

it's been obvious that vegas isn't a big priority for sony, so we really should be looking around. and none of the editors/camera guys I hire to do shoots for my seminars use vegas, not a single one.... there's gotta be a reason... and that's too bad, because I'd like to hire them to do my editing too, but I want the source files (like vegs') so I can go re-edit their work, having them do the rough cut.. but we all need to be using the same software... since none are using vegas I'm left out of that possibility.. so I need to go learn the others.. let me know if suggestions on the best nles out there, for under 2k that are worthwhile...

-k

"Users should not have to wait for multiple version upgrades to get faults fixed.
"

You have just summed up the current state of software today. Every company has bugs in its software and all companies know that users more or less know this. So instead of fixing things under a current license, they fix them and release the fixes only in a new paid upgrade. Software is the biggest scam with regards to consumer rights next to the music/movie industry. They claim they need the constant revenue stream to continue innovating and fixing problems. If that was the case, why not figure in the "additional costs" of bug fixing when they price their software ...oh wait, they do that already.

I'm not saying this to bust anyone's chops, but I've been reading postings on this site for a few years now, and the same people keep threatening to switch to a different system. People seem to claim allegiances to NLE's as if they were sticking up for their favorite baseball team. Sony has no allegiance to you or I; if you want to switch, why don't you switch? But obviously from other postings here and on other popular videography forums, the other NLE's have their own assets and drawbacks. I do agree with those who are saying that V8 should give a good indication of where Sony is going with Vegas.

I just do VERY small time work, and Vegas is perfect for that. I have several friends who use FCP and want to collaborate, and when I'm ready to do that, I'll definitely start using FCP. Who knows, maybe I'll drop Vegas all together if the FCP suite is any good. I don't owe Sony anything. Again, not to bust chops... I ask this honestly curious: if you've been complaining/threatening to switch NLE's for years, why are you still here?

CCLUB...

Very naive question, IMHO.

"I ask this honestly curious: if you've been complaining/threatening to switch NLE's for years, why are you still here?"

Because thats the only thing companies understand is when you threaten to take your business and money elsewhere. Sure it doesnt bother you because as you said yourself, youre small time. The lack of features dont bother you because you dont need them. But for others who do, we care about our investment in the software. I hated to have to switch over totally to Adobe CS3 especially because of the prices, but at least there is a better return on cost and work flow. At one time, Vegas used to be the alternative to archaic editing. Now that Vegas has earned a little success and popularity, they have rested on their laurels. They used to be very innovative when it was SF. Now Vegas is the last of the major NLEs that doesnt offer native multicam function. Do you even realize that Sony's competitors are already offering BD authoring before they do? Thats absurd. Sony missed the boat on that one big time.

We bitch here because where else can we bitch? Its not like Sony reads the boards much anymore. But theres a shred of hope in all that bitch that maybe, just maybe one day Sony will say "you know what, we really need to offer a better titler" or "maybe we need to actively get more plugins written for our software to better serve our customers."

The truth is Sony doesnt care. If you have already paid for Vegas, then youre money in the bank and the best Sony can do is get upgrade revenue from you. Sony only seems to care to attract new customers or ignore requests from the old customers. They have a very closed beta team and hardly ever communicate with their customers other than trying to sell you some more software, sometimes even products that you already own.

Furthermore, if we dont threaten to switch, things will never get changed...see MSFT. Sony is supposed to serve its customers and offer features that we want...not serve themselves and give us only features they want us to have.