Vegas 9.0c and DebugMode Frameserver

Sebaz wrote on 12/24/2009, 6:18 AM
Since somebody posted in another thread that 9.0c wasn't suffering from the playback stutter that was evident in 9 and 9.0a I decided to give it a shot and I downloaded it. The playback problem seems indeed fixed, and playback overall is better than in 8.0c, although it's still not continuously smooth as in other NLEs, but it's good enough to do a dynamic edit without having to use any intermediate. Now, I don't want to say it's great yet, I still haven't done any major rendering to see if it hangs or not.

One thing that I normally use in 8.0c is DebugMode Frameserver because Sony's AVC encoder is rather handicapped, not allowing more than 16 Mbps. With DF, Avisynth and Megui as a GUI for x264 I can export the timeline to 20 Mbps h.264 that will play HD on DVD media in a blu-ray player.

The problem is that DebugMode Framserver isn't working for me.It shows as a render option but when I select it click OK the render as window disappears and Vegas does nothing else. It doesn't crash or anything, but it doesn't bring up the DF box where you choose the color format, and it doesn't show the render progress dialog.

I downloaded the latest version of DF, the one that is supposed to support Vegas 9, and although I had the trial for 9.0c 64 bit I also installed the 32 bit one because that way I can use DF.

I tried to render to DF several times not only closing Vegas but also rebooting, and I also tried uninstalling DF, searching the Windows registry for any references to it and deleting them, rebooting, reinstalling it again, rebooting, launching Vegas, and the same thing happens.

I searched everywhere for this problem but people that have problems with DF don't seem to have this particular problem, most of them just don't see it as a render option, which is normally caused by choosing the wrong install folder. Does anybody have any experience with this that might help me?

Comments

bsuratt wrote on 12/24/2009, 10:52 AM
There are a number of posts in DF forum with the "crash" problem. In my case it crashes about 80% of the time when you click Save with a "Send error to Sony?" message. The other 20% of the time it works fine. Have not found a reason or workaround.

I need to use it on a fairly frequent basis as I have found the only way to get decent looking HDV to SD conversion is frameserving to VirtualDub to handle the resize.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any real interest in fixing this.... alas, the problem with free ware!
Sebaz wrote on 12/25/2009, 7:09 AM
That sucks. So is this common to most people under Vegas 9, or just a few configurations, such as running under Win 7 64 bit?

I need to use it on a fairly frequent basis as I have found the only way to get decent looking HDV to SD conversion is frameserving to VirtualDub to handle the resize.

I know that VDub has the Lanczos3 resizer, but whenever I edited HDV (and AVCHD as well) on Vegas and exported to SD for DVD it looked perfect. I just have to make sure to set the project deinterlacing to "Interpolate fields", or the interlacing gets messed up.
bsuratt wrote on 12/26/2009, 8:02 PM
Try it with a lot of motion... ie: water ripples on a lake... fast motion.. PQ falls apart fast. Lots of artifacting and blur! The resize filter (Lanzcos 3) greatly cleans up the garbage on this kind of footage.

On still or nearly still subject matter I would agree with you that Vegas is adequate.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 12/28/2009, 5:27 PM
The DFS installer does not work correctly for any 64 bit Windows version, but according to previous posts by Satish (the author of DFS), it can be made to work. I tried the most recent version of DFS (2.7) and it still does not install properly on Windows 7 x64. It does not put the VFW DFS decoder library (dfsc.dll) in c:\windows\system\syswow64. It also does not put the DFS encoder library (dfscVegasOut.dll) needed by Vegas in xx:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Shared Plug-Ins, if Vegas is installed anywhere but on drive c:

Now, even if you fix all that, your Windows registry is still probably missing entries for the DFS. They are located at:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\VIDC.DFSC

and

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\drivers.desc

I am hesitant to post the exact registry information, since although it made my copy of DFS work fine, people can get in a whole lot of trouble by manually editing the Windows registry. Maybe Satish could post a registry file (.reg) that would add the proper entries.
Sebaz wrote on 12/29/2009, 5:04 PM
Does anybody know if there is another alternative to DF that will work with Vegas 9, even if it's only in the 32 bit version?
bsuratt wrote on 12/30/2009, 9:23 PM
jaBloom1230 .. Just to verify... you say it will work with Win7 and 9c/64? Did you try 9c/32 bit version?

Would appreciate the registry values which worked for you.

Thanks
Sebaz wrote on 12/31/2009, 3:54 AM
I am hesitant to post the exact registry information, since although it made my copy of DFS work fine, people can get in a whole lot of trouble by manually editing the Windows registry. Maybe Satish could post a registry file (.reg) that would add the proper entries.

If you know exactly what to modify in the registry please post it, I don't mind going into the registry, I've done it many times.
pavlas_petr@centrum.cz wrote on 1/1/2010, 3:05 AM
I have exactly the same experience. It mostly fails, only sometimes it work OK, I neither can see a rule when and why?
The latest Vegas is somehow weak, I still have a problem not beeing able to render any one video into MPEG2SD - it fails always - in 100%. That is why I use the debug, but it takes a lot of time to be succesfull even with it. It mostly fails too, sometimes not but I never know the result in advance.
Sebaz wrote on 1/1/2010, 7:48 AM
If you have trouble rendering to SD Mpeg2 you might have something in your system that might be causing the problem, I don't have any trouble rendering to widescreen SD Mpeg2.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 1/2/2010, 1:23 PM
Just to clarify, V2.7 will work under a 64 bit OS, but DFS will only work with 32 bit software, whether it is Vegas Pro or VDub. Now as to the registry issue, I don't feel comfortable in posting it, not only because someone might brick their Windows installation, but moreso, because the the author (Satish) has certain rights over the software. I'm really sorry about this.

DFS uses the NSIS installer and it is possible to open the exe file with an unpacker program like 7Zip and examine how the installation tries to put various files in specific folders and what registry changes the installer makes. My advice is to email the author (Satish) and ask him for an ETA on an installer that will work under Vista or Windows 7 x64. I should add that Cineform also uses an NSIS installer and they had problems with x64 OSes initially also.
Sebaz wrote on 1/2/2010, 2:13 PM
The problem is not so much the installer under Windows 7 64 bit, the problem seems to be with DMFS and Vegas Pro 9 32 bit. I can install 2.7 just fine and it works with Vegas Pro 8.0c, but it doesn't with 9 32 bit.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 1/3/2010, 9:58 AM
Sebaz,

With the registry tinkering on Windows 7 x64, V2.7 does work for me and I tried it with a bunch of different NLE "servers" and "clients", including Vegas Pro 9.0c. So it probably works on most 32 bit Windows installations also.

My guess is that on your PC, a DFS file is installed in the wrong folder (or not at all) for VP9. The remaining DFS registry settings just tell Windows where the VFW video and audio codecs that are used by DFS are installed. If that aspect was broken, VP8 wouldn't work properly either.

Download 7-Zip, unpack the DFS exe file with 7-Zip and take a look at the installer's files. See if the Vegas-related files are all installed in the proper locations on your PC. Check my post above for that information.

J
Sebaz wrote on 1/3/2010, 3:16 PM
Is 7Zip different from Winrar? I really don't want to install any software in my computer unless I really have to. I wasn't able to unpack it with Winrar, that's why I'm asking.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 1/3/2010, 3:46 PM
Yes, 7-Zip and Total Commander (a Win Explorer replacement) are the only two programs that will expose/unpack an NSIS exe file. Run 7-Zip and open the exe file with it. You will see the NSIS installer file structure. See if you have all your files in the right locations. For 32 bit Windows, here's what I think that it should look like:

c:\windows\system32

dfsc.dll
dfscacm.dll

c:\Program Files (x86)\DebugMode\FrameServer

dfscVegasV2Out.dll
fscommon.dll
ImageSequence.dll

(plus a few extra txt and other files that are not mandatory for operation of DFS)

c:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Shared Plug-Ins

dfscVegasOut.dll

Now, I'm not positive that all of these files are needed, but that's where I think that they are supposed to be. Only Satish would know for sure.

You can always uninstall 7-Zip afterward.

Sebaz wrote on 1/3/2010, 5:02 PM
Well, for a 32 bit Windows it wouldn't be c:\Program Files (x86)\DebugMode\FrameServer it would be c:\Program Files\DebugMode\FrameServer. The c:\Program Files (x86) is only present in 64 bit Windows to hold the programs that are 32 bit.

However, the files you say are in c:\windows\system32, in 64 bit Windows are in C:\Windows\SysWOW64 which is where the 32 bit files are.

So it looks like I have all the files in the right place for my 64 bit installation, but still no dice. I installed a Vista 32 bit Home Premium that I had from 2007 in a separate drive so I will install 9.0c in it and I'll report back tomorrow.
bsuratt wrote on 1/3/2010, 10:47 PM
I installed 2.7 in Win 7 64bit/9c and it is working fine. The installer worked OK for me on 64bit. Still cannot get 32 bit to work in Vista 32/9c
Sebaz wrote on 1/4/2010, 3:56 PM
OK, so after doing some more testing it seems to me that DFS 2.7 needs some more debugging. If I reboot Win 7 and then launch 9.0c 32 bit, it will work. However, if for whatever reason I need to cancel the frameserving, or simply end it when it's done, it won't work a second time unless I again reboot Win7. Also, I can keep working on Vegas after the problem happens, but as soon as I close Vegas I get the problem report dialog with this:

Extra Information
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\9.0\dx_video_grovel_x86.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\9.0\dx_grovel_x86.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\9.0\vst_grovel.log

Problem Description
Application Name: Vegas Pro
Application Version: Version 9.0c (Build 896)
Problem: Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
Fault Module: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Fault Address: 0x77263100
Fault Offset: 0x00033100

Fault Process Details
Process Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Vegas Pro 9.0\vegas90.exe
Process Version: Version 9.0c (Build 896)
Process Description: Vegas Pro
Process Image Date: 2009-10-26 (Mon Oct 26) 15:41:04

And, if DFS actually works and MeGui finishes encoding, when I close Vegas I still get the above mess.

On the other hand, in a very fresh install of Vista 32 on a separate drive (native mode, not virtual machine), DFS simply crashes 9.0c. It did every single time I wanted to use it.

I really hope that Satish can keep working on this great software because Sony's bundled AVC encoder is very pathetic, while DFS allows me to encode my timeline to 25 Mbps AVC if i want to. For now, when I have to edit AVCHD that I want to encode to a high bitrate AVC I'm going to have to use Edius Neo 2 Booster, which has an excellent AVC encoder with plenty of options and bitrates.
LReavis wrote on 1/5/2010, 11:19 AM
there was a time when I was using DMF. However, I started following a different procedure: Render the timeline to PicVideo or Cineform .AVI, then take the .AVI into VirtualDub for whatever tweaking was needed. I think I chose this procedure instead of DMF because I often end up wanting more than one final delivery mode - web, DVD, CD data disk with .WMV for watching on a computer, etc. Even if I produce the .WMV from Vegas, rendering the .WMV from the .AVI is inevitably much faster than from the timeline with all its chromakeys, feathered masks, and other render-clogging effects.

Obviously, this involves yet another render - to .AVI - with required additional disk space, time, etc. But otherwise? Is there some reason why this is not a satisfactory work-around? The .AVI is so portable - almost any video app can handle it except the new version of HandBrake.
Sebaz wrote on 1/5/2010, 2:36 PM
Well, there are three disadvantages to that work-around. One is the need for lots of disk space if your timeline is long. Then there is the problem of adding another recompression to the footage, which means less picture quality than rendering directly. And finally, it adds a lot of time to the render process, first to one format and then to another. I don't see the point.