Vegas crashing when I try to load 5D2 files

LarsHD wrote on 5/17/2010, 5:23 AM
A.
I highlight 30 5D2 MOV files and expect to see themn on the time line.
Nothing happens during a minute or so,
Then the spinning circle.
Then it just stays there and crashes.
Happens every time if the MOV files are more than 10-15.
Regardless preview RAM setting.

B.
I do the same in Premier Pro.
It loads all the files quickly and works.

C.
I do the same in Avid MC 4.
It transcodes all the files and works.


Why is Vegas Pro 9.0e crashing *EVERY* time I feed it with more than just a few MOV 5D2 files?


Lars

Comments

kkolbo wrote on 5/17/2010, 6:24 AM

Lars,

I know you are trying to make things work, but why do you keep beating your head against a wall? If Vegas isn't doing the job, why do you keep wasting your precious time (Spelled $$) with trying to do something that doesn't work for you? I don't doubt that 5D files work much better is some other NLE's. Sony has said that the one thing to do is to make sure that you match the project settings to your 5D files using the Match Media Settings button in the project properties tab. Even then, becuase it is in a .MOV container there is an overhead hit taken in the way Vegas uses Quicktime to pass the info back and forth. Apple keeps changing its API interface and other stuff making that interface too risky for me.

Experienced users have told you that to work well with 5D footage in Vegas on anything except a workstation level system is to transcode it to a DI. If that is not an alternative that you are willing to pursue than you really should use another NLE for your work. I like my workflow in Vegas so I transcode footage that is not in a format that Vegas is tops in. Sometimes I choose on of the three other NLE's that I keep on my desktop to get the job done the best way. That experience works well for me and I am happy. Other NLE's have formats that they don't do well with and Vegas does handle. That is that nature of the world.

Please continue with trying to see if you have any local issues that can help all of us, but you really need to go another route with your work if it is not working for you. Life is too short my friend for all the pain you are experiencing with this. It sounds like you have the tools and experience to get it done. Go out and make video! Or as I would think that Vic might say it, Just go shoot something.

KK
LarsHD wrote on 5/17/2010, 8:36 AM
KK: I know you are trying to make things work, but why do you keep beating your head against a wall? If Vegas isn't doing the job, why do you keep wasting your precious time (Spelled $$) with trying to do something that doesn't work for you? I don't doubt that 5D files work much better is some other NLE's. Sony has said that the one thing to do is to make sure that you match the project settings to your 5D files using the Match Media Settings button in the project properties tab. Even then, becuase it is in a .MOV container there is an overhead hit taken in the way Vegas uses Quicktime to pass the info back and forth. Apple keeps changing its API interface and other stuff making that interface too risky for me.

Lars: Could you clarify this please? Is it Apples fault you mean that Vegas can't handle the 5D2 MOV files?


KK: Experienced users have told you that to work well with 5D footage in Vegas on anything except a workstation level system is to transcode it to a DI.

Lars: So let's forget about making Vegas play 5D2 footage direcly?

KK: If that is not an alternative that you are willing to pursue than you really should use another NLE for your work. I like my workflow in Vegas so I transcode footage that is not in a format that Vegas is tops in. Sometimes I choose on of the three other NLE's that I keep on my desktop to get the job done the best way. That experience works well for me and I am happy. Other NLE's have formats that they don't do well with and Vegas does handle. That is that nature of the world.

Lars: Great!. Bet *that* got the SCS developers going now to improve Vegas!

KK: Please continue with trying to see if you have any local issues that can help all of us, but you really need to go another route with your work if it is not working for you.

Lars: I like many things with the Vegas interface. I have Premier Pro and Avid. I'm not in a distaster zone in any way. I just like to discuss the tecjhnicall issue about this product. But thanks for the emotional input.

KK: Life is too short my friend for all the pain you are experiencing with this. It sounds like you have the tools and experience to get it done. Go out and make video! Or as I would think that Vic might say it, Just go shoot something.

Lars: Thanks my friend, I feel much better :) Now let's continue with the technical issues once we got all that therapeutic stuff out of the way. If the weaknesses and various aspects of Vegas are discussed there's still hope for some improvements. Once we just limit the discussion on this forum to "how do I render for YouTube" then Vegas will never become really "Pro" will it...

Take care KK and thanks for your efforts in trying to limit the discussion about performance problems in Vegas.

best
Lars

KK
kkolbo wrote on 5/17/2010, 10:29 AM
Lars: Could you clarify this please? Is it Apples fault you mean that Vegas can't handle the 5D2 MOV files?

No I am saying that at the moment it appears that Vegas is using the Apple interface to read these and that will cause a performance hit.

Lars: So let's forget about making Vegas play 5D2 footage direcly?

Personally yes. Editing in a lossey format isn't a good direction to start with, but either way, SCS is aware of 5D files and a constant stream of "they can but I can't" does not change the situation. If you want more complex support for the format then flood the suggestion box, not the user forum. I personally welcome a true technical discussion with challenges and solutions, but that is not what is happening. There is nothing new here. This is old complaining and a rehash.

I am not the forum police and I have no personal beef with you. I just think you are wasting your time beating a dead horse with discussion that has gone on since the camera came out. SCS is clearly aware. I will bet that it is below their list of priorities right now. I would think that improved .h264 support as a whole is on the list, but again, this is an old discussion. I just hate to see folks get mind locked and miss a project date when there are good alternatives available right now to solve the problem. From what you say, you are not stuck. That is good.

Perhaps if you are truly trying to make a difference, you could post a file, get benchmarks from various Vegas systems with that file, and look for what makes a difference in the performance. That approach has done a number of things over time. You recent post with CODEC comparisons across platforms is helpful. Others can put that into practice.

Personally, how folks use this forum is up to them. Keep smilin' and be patient. SCS is not stupid nor are they unaware.
LarsHD wrote on 5/17/2010, 11:12 AM
KK,

SCS should put playing files like 5D2 etc very high on the list. Other manufacturers of NLE's do this and for a good reason. Many people get camera footage like this and want to work with it right away.

I have personally now had the opportunity to try out the difference.

It has saves a lot of time being able to just put the camera footage right where you want it and start editing. This *really* saves time and hard drive space. If the NLE can play the footage then this is a great user benefit. No doubt. Ther's nothing bad about *NOT* being forced to transcode. There's nothing bad being able to continue using my Q6600 8 gb machine and enjoy good performance.

Many, many don't want to invest $ 3000.- in new hardware to compensate for old and bad code and still not enjoy reliable performance. That is also the truth here.

I hope that SCS don't reason like you do. Adobe for sure didn't and it seemed to be very successful. Today the Mercury Cuda engine and its ability to handle 5D2 fottage for sure hasn't passed unnoticed. How many users haven't viewed the marketing videos today and been attracted to the performance aspects...?

Avid is announcing their cabability for direct handling of 5D and 7D footage and seems to think this is something really important. And can prodly invite people to seminars today and show their achievments.

I work with it, And it is *really* good.

As in regards to comparing MOV / 5D2 footage I have in previous posts already mentioned the possiblity to go to dpreview.com and download the 5D2 sample footage from there.

However, the bitter truth is that this doesn't really help KK. Vegas performance in this regard is so bad that the only thing need is for SCS to fix things. Like Adobe and Avid already has.

The only PC's where 5D2 footage and multiple streams runs perfectly and where there is no stutter when moving text and doing easy 3D thing are on the PC's from users where we will not really know how they do it...

You say: "constant stream of "they can but I can't" does not change the situation"

I say: Of course it does KK. That's what drives the market forward and creates better performing product.

So: Avid and Adobe users can handle 5D2 footage. I want Vegas to handle 5D2 footage too!

You say "keep smiling and me patient". This is a bad idea if you want better performance and get rid of stutter and half frame rate performance. Better to say "show how unhappy you are and be not patient".

I like a lot about the Vegas interface and would like the performance to be better.

Are your views here the views of SCS btw? Or are these exotic views your own private views?


Best
Lars
kkolbo wrote on 5/17/2010, 11:26 AM

I wouldn't call them exotic, but yes they are my own. I do not represent Sony, Sony Creative Software, or any affiliate. In fact I am just one voice in the darkness. Like you just one opinion. We may choose to differ. That works for me. I feel there are more important eggs to fry than 5D files. There are many more important things to address. Again that is just one opinion, your mileage may vary and it obviously does. A lot more work is done in other formats and dealing with other issues. I respect that SCS has to make difficult choices on what to address and when.

There is no regular user on this site who does. An admin will check the forum once in a way, but it is not a moderated forum.
CClub wrote on 5/17/2010, 4:32 PM
Lars,
WHY do you continue to use Vegas? You have like 10 posts going about how much better the other NLE's are than Vegas. Almost all of your posts talk about how much Vegas should be like the other NLE's. I've had major issues with Vegas over the past few years, but if I disliked the Vegas features as much as you do, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on this forum. As I asked in a recent post, didn't you go out in a huff a couple months ago, with a dramatic farewell posting about how we wouldn't be seeing you anymore?