Vegas DV AVI's don’t display correctly in some other apps

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/2/2003, 10:30 AM
I've got a really strange problem on my PC. I've been told that you don't "capture" DV, it's a byte-for-byte copy from the camera via firewire directly to your hard drive. My observations suggest something different is happening. Someone is getting their bytes mixed up and it looks like its Vegas but I can’t be sure. I assume this is a codec problem but I don’t know how to fix it.

I use Vegas for all my editing and for DV capture but I also have Pinnacle Studio 7 Deluxe for capturing analog tape to DV. Neither of these programs exposes their DV codec to other Windows programs (shame on both of you) so I also installed the Panasonic DV codec which came with my miniDV camcorder so I can encode AVI's in DV format from utilities like VirtualDub, Ulead Cool 3D Studio, etc.

If I capture the video (either DV or analog) with Studio 7, it will load and display correctly in all applications. Likewise if I generate a DV file from Cool 3D using the Panasonic DV codec, it displays fine. When I use Windows Explorer and I right click on the AVI file from either of these and go to Properties and then the Media tab, the video plays perfect. If I do the same thing with a DV AVI file I captured with Vegas, it displays correctly in VirtualDub and Studio 7, but in Cool 3D Studio and some other programs like particleIllusion SE, it is just a matrix of small multi-colored squares. The same thing happens in Windows Explorer. If I select the Properties/Media tab, it displays the same garbage matrix of small multi-colored squares. This seems to indicate that the two DV avi file formats are NOT the same.

I checked the FourCC on both AVI files and they are both "dvsd". In the Details tab on Windows Explorer they are both showing as using "DVCodec". In my system.ini file (I'm using WinMe) under the "[drivers32]" stanza Studio 7 added "VIDC.dvsd=miroDV2avi.DLL" which is their DV codec which only decompresses so you can't encode with it (thanks for nothing Pinnacle). After I installed the Panasonic DV codec that came with my camera it got changed to "VIDC.DVSD=pdvcodec.dll". I have no idea what it was before either of these programs changed it. Both of these yield the same results. Vegas captured or generated DV AVI files are just garbage multi-colored squares.

Same problem when I render. Even if I select ignore 3rd part DV codecs and use Mircosoft DV codec and then explicitly select the Panasonic DV codec when I render I get the same problem. Very strange. So that makes exporting video from Vegas for use in other effects programs limited to output as uncompressed (which can be quite large). Does anyone know what the default entry for VIDC.DVSD=??? in WinMe was so I can test the default Microsoft codec? Can anyone from SoFo explain why the DV AVI files they capture and produce are not compatible with the Pinnacle Miro and Panasonic DV codecs?

~jr

Comments

Control_Z wrote on 3/2/2003, 10:35 AM
Wild guess, but I know Ulead products all tend to use type 1 DV. Vegas (and Premiere and most everyone else) use type 2 dv.

Although the apps offer to render in either type, when I converted from Ulead MSP I found I really had to write to tape from MSP and capture with Vegas to get good clips.
VIDEOGRAM wrote on 3/2/2003, 10:40 AM
Hi,

I have a similar problem. I now edit in VV4 from clips captured threw PINNACLE DV300, a non OHCI capture card. I then render the edit and bring it into PREMIERE to export to tape threw DV300. PREMIERE sees the clip, plays it fine in the preview window, but when I bring the clip in the timeline, I don't have the audio.
Other thing. When I bring the clip in SoundForge (version 4.5 .. I didn't upgrade) to sweeten the audio, I see the same pixelazation as you do.

Any suggestions?

Gilles
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/2/2003, 10:57 AM
Good guess but I don’t think its a DV1 / DV2 type problem. Studio 7 only works with DV2. Vegas also outputs DV2. Files output with Studio 7 work fine and files output with Vegas don’t. I just loaded both files into Ulead’s DV type converter (which converts from DV1 to DV2) and it complained that both files were not DV type 1 files. So I know they are both DV type 2.

~jr
DDogg wrote on 3/2/2003, 12:56 PM
It can be a headscratcher until you realize you are dealing with two different systems. Your Panasonic codec as well as the Sony for example are VFW codecs (Video For Windows). These date back to the early versions of Windows. The MS DV codec and I assume the Vegas internal ? is a DirectShow codec and would not be available to VDub or other VFW applications.

Did you notice you could play back your DV on WMP BEFORE you installed your Panasonic codec? WMP uses the DirectShow Interface. VDub and many others use the VFW interface. I have not used Cool3D so I don't know what it is using. When you also introduce DV1 and DV2 into the equation it gets even more complicated.

One of the more simple solutions is to get the free DV convertor from Canopus. With it you can always convert the different formats to MS DV so that you may use them in those applications that require DS.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/2/2003, 3:29 PM
Found it! Ddogg you were close. It wasn’t so much VFW vs. DirectShow, it was OpenDML support that was causing it.

If I go into the Options when I render and select the Video tab and deselect "Create an OpenDML (AVI version 2.0) compatible file" I can open the files in all of my programs. So it was the programs that couldn’t handle OpenDML that were having the problem.

OK, so now what am I loosing by not creating an OpenDML compatible file? (which was very "incompatible" if you ask me) ;-)

~jr
VIDEOGRAM wrote on 3/2/2003, 5:46 PM
Mr JohnnyRoy,

You are a genius! Thanks.
The Open DML did the trick for me too.

Gilles
RBartlett wrote on 3/2/2003, 5:55 PM
OpenDML gets you past the 4GB, 18 minute boundary where previously multiple AVIs were created at 2GB segments and some wrapper or bolt-on "on the fly" merge tool provided with the NLE etc. You need a big file file system like NTFS or MacHFS to support such AVIs/MOVs.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/2/2003, 6:35 PM
Gilles, no sometimes I’m just lucky. Your welcome anyway. :)

RBartlett, Since I don’t have NTFS drives I doubt I’ll be needing this so I’ll just keep it off. Thanks for the info.

~jr