Vegas Effects (Post) Boris FX Continuum Question

Wiew wrote on 9/30/2022, 2:22 PM

I want to buy Post

A simple question

Does OFX , Boris Continuum , Mocha , NBFX , Prodad etc ....

Work in Vegas Effects or only in Vegas Pro ?

Comments

Gid wrote on 9/30/2022, 4:05 PM

@Wiew Hi, I have V Post 19 & the full Boris Suite, all of them sort of work in VE, I'm not sure about Mocha Pro but I might be using it wrong in VE. I can't get it to show the insert & the source in Mocha's window. For a long time Continuum effects wouldn't transfer back to VP, they do now 🤷‍♂️. Sapphire & Mocha can bring Vegas to it's knees, esp if working through VE, (I bought Mocha & Silhouette Standalone because of that), S_Effect has an option to have a select few controls show in the host, VE doesn't show any controls,

I just spent 20mins checking this out for you, crashed VE 3 times, In VP the on screen controls are so tiny & no zoom window makes it hard to use effects, that's why I got V Post but to be honest i was disappointed,

I don't /didn't use VE much, although the on-screen controls are rubbish I found it easier to work in VP itself, so I haven't updated to V Post 20 this yr, I just got V Edit & I now use Adobe AE for using the Boris stuff, it's a 1000x's better, learning to use it over the last couple of wks, 6-8hrs a night, making mistakes, messing with it's head & mine I've crashed it a total of maybe 6-8 times, prob mainly user error 🤦‍♂️😂 , & every Boris effect/filter etc works correctly at a decent res & speed.

I have Newblue Total FX, it shows in VE but after the third crash in VE I quit trying to see what did work.

Maybe V Post 20 is better but i doubt it.

I only have proDaD v6 which i believe is standalone only.

Vegas Pro 20
Vegas Pro/Post 19 (Latest build), HitFilm Pro,  
Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2023 - from 2004-ish - Latest version,
Magix VPX14
Adobe After Effects
Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans

I'm 54, I've been a UK joiner for 38yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that i can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
 

Seb-o wrote on 10/1/2022, 12:05 AM

It was just observed on another recent thread (two days ago) discussing round tripping to Hitfilm (or Vegas Effects, almost same thing, especially for the point of this discussion) and it was seen as a net negative, as far as time required, to use the internal Vegas "pipeline" to HF (again, same for VPEffects) - faster to simply edit in HF - render that and then import that rendered file into Vegas. This was from an experience user who'd timed some experiments utilizing both methods.

I bring that up because I would assume that one could WISH for a perfect integration with Mocha, (and you might have that already, or have that on the way) but the fact is that you can just use Mocha as either a standalone or a the OFX plugin for Vegas, and maybe, as well, a plugin inside a plugin (HF or Effects, whatever the case may be) but, in the case of the latter, might simply not be as fast, so at the end of the day, it's not super critical one way or the other.

Dexcon wrote on 10/1/2022, 1:03 AM

Please keep in mind that the version of Mocha that comes with HitFilm Pro is not the full Mocha Pro version. Mocha HitFilm is a very limited version offering Planar Tracking, Roto & Masking, AdjustTrack and 3D Camera Solver. BorisFX's Mocha Pro webpage has a comparison between the various verions of Mocha/Mocha Pro:

https://borisfx.com/products/mocha-pro/?collection=mocha-pro&product=mocha-pro#compare

Mocha Pro has many other modules including the brilliant (almost magical) Remove module as well as a stabilisation module. The comparison webpage above shows all of Mocha Pro's features.

The OFX version of Mocha Pro ($695 USD for a new licence) works very well in Vegas Pro (for me anyway) but does not have standalone (SAL) capabiliity. To get the SAL version, you'd need to get the 'Standalone & Multi-Host Plug-ins' version of Mocha Pro ($1,495 USD for a new licence). It is not clear whether or not 'Mult-Host' includes Vegas Pro.

If considering getting Mocha Pro by purchase or subscription, it would be a very good idea to first familiarise yourself with all Mocha Pro's versions, features and pricing at BorisFX's Mocha Pro website.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16 Edit, Vegas Pro 17 Edit, Vegas Pro 18, Vegas Pro 19 Edit, Vegas Pro 20 Edit, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, BCC 2023, Mocha Pro 2022.5.1, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 9, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD

D drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

E & F drives: 2 x 2TB Barracuda HDDs 2.5"

 

Wiew wrote on 10/1/2022, 1:08 AM

@Gid 

Thank you for testing this out for me. Also sorry to hear that the integration is not ok(yet)

I think I'll wait a while with the upgrade to Post until these problems are solved.I now use Vegas Edit 19 and Hitfilm.
I've tested After Effects a few times and it's a really nice program. Only the cost, 25€ per month and then I have to buy Boris FX again for After Effects because OFX doesn't work in AE.

I'm going to upgrade my Edit to 20 and continue to use this in combination with Hitfilm

@Dexcon I bought the package deal on Black Friday 2years ago , Continuum + Mocha Pro.

I realy like Mocha , , I use it a lot and indeed it works well in VP and in HF

Last changed by Wiew on 10/1/2022, 1:11 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camera's Panasonic HC-X1 (4K/UHD) Panasonic HDC-700 (1080P)

Hardware ; MSI GL72GL 7RD Gaming PC (32GB ram) SSD Hard drives

27" 4K screen

My showreel

Seb-o wrote on 10/1/2022, 1:46 AM

I'm just seeking some clarity as this is a murkey topic getting murkier, and hopefully the clarity will return soon.

I'm not sure about the integration, as far as "can use inside Hitfilm" meaning Mocha Pro....

Have you tried that?

You say you have them and they both work inside Vegas, what more do you need/want?

I'm just curious, since I don't have Mocha Pro, (and I'm a bit jealous -- I have Mocha AE and Mocha HF, both good but not the full on version you have)......how does Mocha Pro OFX "pipeline" in/out of Vegas? Please give some real detail on that round trip idea, and I thank you in advance for that.

Mocha HF works inside Vegas via HFP. I have it, have not really had need to use. I bought HFP, Mocha HF included, for $30 on Humble Bundle....I tried to alert as many as possible here at the time of that offer, did not seem to garner too much interest (probably to delight of Vegas CS, as that might cut down their own Effects sales, and the people who'd bought HFP earlier HOWLED on the FXHOME boards, understandably, so I don't think that offer is coming back too soon....ahahahaha).....

I think the diparagement of Mocha Hitfilm is unnecessarily unctuous, this is a great program in its own right, and SOLVES real tracking problems and masking problems for MANY users potentially. NO, it is not the full program, but it's not 700 clams either. For me, it gives me what I need, and again, I have the two but I've just used the AE equivalent. It's perfectly great.

There is a murkiness to the Hitfilm/Vegas marriage going forward, I've asked Vegas reps to step in and give some more complete answers, esp. in the light of Hitfilm being bought recently and the anouncement that the HF/Vegas integration would cease.....I'm not sure if that means it won't work at all in the future or it just won't be afforded any special attention as to pipeline as it is now, or if that shifts to a 'Vegas Post only' solution for that integration....they are not talking and I think that is - on its face - disreputable, honestly. Or at least amateurish, if I'm not missing some salient fact here, and if so, I withdraw those remarks.

Reyfox wrote on 10/1/2022, 4:12 AM

@Seb-o @Wiew, I too want to consider Post for my next upgrade, but like @Wiew, I too want to know if/how Boris plugins work directly in Effects. I bought the Humble Hitfilm when it was available a couple of years ago. It was a steal at the price. And yes, there was an uproar in their forum about it. And FXHome said never again. I upgraded to 2021.3, the last version with Vegas/AE integration last year. My support has lapsed and I am not interested in renewing it.

Using VP19, I can send from the timeline any clip to HFP 2021.3, drag a HFP file to the timeline in Vegas Edit and everything is there. Is it a smooth workflow? It works, but I would like better integration. Going with Post, I would lose some features (Mocha HF), but for the most part, Mocha in Continuum will serve any of my needs. At the moment, 3D camera tracking isn't on my radar, but I can see it being used by those that do a lot of compositing (like @DatoAliffAlex) and it being a desirable feature. Also, for "me", while having OFX plugins working in Effects would be really nice, it's not quite a necessity for "me", since Effects would be for compositing/3D/etc only. There would be no need for it to become a clone of Hitfilm where you can also do timeline editing like HF does now. But again, I can see how being able to use OFX in Effects would speed up the workflow.

Artlist bought FXHome over a year ago. They made a lot of promises, and nothing has materialized yet. I don't think HF is going away, and I can't see Artlist turning down money from Vegas to use it. But @Seb-o brought up a a couple of good questions. What is the future like, and what improvements do we have to look forward to in the future possibly? I know the developers don't reveal the roadmap, but some encouraging words would go a long ways with the Vegas community or anyone else looking to consider Post.

Wiew wrote on 10/1/2022, 9:43 AM

@Reyfox 

I've never used Hitfilm as an editor
I have made some compositing shots in Hitfilm and I can tell you that I have used OFX several times and mainly Boris FX in my compositing shots.

If Vegas Effects crashes when those effects are added, than there is still work to be done.

Vegas Effects doens't have to be copy of Hitfilm.

I've used 3D camera tracking a few times , so if Mocha Pro works in Vegas Effects without crashing it is ok for me

What I read here about Post I'm afraid it won't meet my requirements and that I will go back to Hitfilm in frustration. Then I better wait another year until Post/Vegas Effects has become a bit more mature.

This is my personal opinion

misohoza wrote on 10/1/2022, 10:03 AM

My experience with Vegas Effects is similar to what @Gid described.

It's OK if you use the built in tools and effects. Third party effects are a bit hit or miss. Some functionality is missing. Some don't work or even appear at all (Continuum 3D objects). And yes, it does crash a lot with BorisFX.

I also prefer to render from Vegas Effects and import that clip to Vegas. It plays back much better than trying to play Vegas Effects project directly from Vegas Pro timeline. It's a shame that pre-renders done in Vegas Effects don't work in Vegas Pro.

Wiew wrote on 10/1/2022, 10:57 AM

@misohoza 

If you have to render your composite shot from Vegas Effects before importing it into Vegas Pro, I honestly don't see the added value of Vegas Effects. You also have to do this with Hitfilm or After Effects.
So the difference lies in what all these compositing programs can do and the price

Reyfox wrote on 10/1/2022, 12:39 PM

I'm not a fan of the way HFP edits video either.

But it would be nice to be able to use OFX in Vegas Effects. As @Wiew said, there are no problems using them within Hitfilm, and it makes the compositing process faster and easier. You do all you want in say, Effects, and then bring it to the timeline.

As for playback. I would guess it depends on what was done and how much. Doing almost the same thing in Vegas will also cause timeline playback issues.

Gid wrote on 10/1/2022, 1:20 PM

It is not clear whether or not 'Mult-Host' includes Vegas Pro.

 

@Dexcon I believe it is all hosts, I have the Mocha & Silhouette Standalone but on my Boris App manager it shows the OFX one I bought 1st, as well as the multi host standalone, so it's not entirely clear on that manager,

I know when i got AE i only had to upgrade Continuum, https://borisfx.com/faq/mocha-pro-plug-in-versus-standalone-application/

Vegas Pro 20
Vegas Pro/Post 19 (Latest build), HitFilm Pro,  
Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2023 - from 2004-ish - Latest version,
Magix VPX14
Adobe After Effects
Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans

I'm 54, I've been a UK joiner for 38yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that i can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G