Vegas Pro 18 NVENC Does Not Support Rtx 3000 GPUs?

R6VegasX wrote on 1/31/2021, 9:57 PM

Hello, a few days ago I got a new laptop with an rtx 3070 mobile.

At home I also got a desktop with a 2070 super. On the 2070s desktop, NVENC video rendering works perfectly.

Around 10 or less minutes to render a specific 20min video.

Unfortunately on the new laptop, it seems the new rtx 3000 series is not supported as rendering with the SAME settings via NVENC is around 20+ minutes, so exactly double almost.

Does Vegas 18 Pro already support Rtx 3000 GPUs or is anyone already successfully rendering videos via nvenc with an rtx 3000 gpu here?

PS: I'm not a noob when it comes to hardware, just in case, been using Vegas for a long time.

Thanks in advance guys!

Comments

RogerS wrote on 1/31/2021, 10:31 PM

The other thread you posted in answers the title question- yes they work in VP 18.

We don't have much data comparing like with like, though.

You can help with that. Download a standard benchmarking project here and do a render which compares CPU (Mainconcept) and GPU (NVENC) renders to AVC or HEVC or both. Try it on both laptop and desktop. Then post the data in the format requested and we can see if your system is performing as well as it should.

The 3XXX notebook cards were recently added to the NVIDIA studio drivers, so install the latest before you start your tests.
 

Last changed by RogerS on 1/31/2021, 10:38 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700 with Intel 630 iGPU, dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit
Vegas 17.424
Vegas 18.434

Grazie wrote on 2/1/2021, 1:13 AM

@RogerS - Ooo.... I got a bit of a shiver there! Anywho, waiting on Company to inform me they’ve located an nVidia 3080 replacement for me? Scarce as Hen’s Teeth. 🐔

RogerS wrote on 2/1/2021, 1:36 AM

Ooo.... I got a bit of a shiver there! Anywho, waiting on Company to inform me they’ve located an nVidia 3080 replacement for me? Scarce as Hen’s Teeth. 🐔

I'm looking forward to your benchmark too! Hope you get your system back and running soon.

yi-h wrote on 2/2/2021, 8:28 AM

Does Vegas 18 Pro already support Rtx 3000 GPUs or is anyone already successfully rendering videos via nvenc with an rtx 3000 gpu here?

 

It's probably not supported.

Because the RX5700 series was released in July 2019.
Just supported in VEGAS Pro 18 Update 2 (Build 373)

It's been 15 months since the GPU was released and it finally works properly.

I had purchased VP17 at the time, but the RX5700 was never supported, and I had to buy VP18.

I think the RTX3000 series will not be supported until VP19 or later.

 

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/comparing-sony-vegas-pro-13-with-vegas-pro18--122954/

VEGASPascal wrote on 10/12/2020, 5:18 PM

My private opinion... I think all NLE have the same worries and problems. They want to give all users the opportunity to have the maximum performance for each individual system. The performance can only be improved by the graphics card... but each manufacturer has its own framework... NVIDIA with Cuda, AMD with OpenSDK and Intel with OneApi (all of them support OpenCL and OpenGL). The problem is NVIDIA only supports the basic functions (OpenCL version 1.2) and AMD shows several problems and crashes with NAVI chips (known issue for AMD).

 

I've never had a problem with adobePP or davinchi.

lenard wrote on 2/2/2021, 10:31 AM

NVIDIA Video Codec SDK 9.1 Brings CUDA CUStream Support, Other Encoder Improvements

NEW to 9.1- Encode: CUStream support in NVENC for enhanced parallelism between CUDA pre-processing and NVENC encoding
NEW to 9.1- Encode: Filler NALU insertion for achieving true CBR
NEW to 9.1- Encode: Control the number of reference frames used by NVENC
NEW to 9.1- Decode: Memory optimizations in sample applications

So if we were to assume even though they just came out with a new VegasPro version, Vegas doesn't support SDK9.1, but Ampere GPU's need it then are rtx3000 series owners experiencing slow Nvenc encoding using the Voukoder plugin and Nvenc? It uses SDK 9.1

https://www.voukoder.org/

From download menu at top, download voukoder 7.2 and the Vegas 18 connector. Voukoder shows as an option in normal render menu , choose Nvenc .

Something you may as well try while waiting for Magix staff to finally answer the question of compatibility with rtx 3000 series card

RogerS wrote on 2/2/2021, 10:08 PM

Does Vegas 18 Pro already support Rtx 3000 GPUs or is anyone already successfully rendering videos via nvenc with an rtx 3000 gpu here?

The link above had an answer to that question, so no need to speculate: yes.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/nvidia-3060-ti-vegas-18-benchmarks--126075/#ca790162

NVIDIA GPUs appear to have the same encoder from the 1650 Super to the 3090.
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new#Encoder

The 9.1 changes don't appear to be needed for compatibility, rather for performance optimization and to take advantage of new capabilities.

lenard wrote on 2/2/2021, 10:36 PM



The 9.1 changes don't appear to be needed for compatibility, rather for performance optimization and to take advantage of new capabilities.

rtx3000 owners are reporting slow NVENC, maybe ampere gpu's need it, the other possible problem is to do with the version of cuda vegas is using in current version. Other NLE's released new versions to support 3000 series cards, Vegas have never done that, as an Example - Davinci Resolve announcement on 17th September 2020

What's new in DaVinci Resolve Studio 16.2.7
Support for NVIDIA Ampere GPUs on Linux and Windows systems.

Please note: for this and following releases, NVIDIA GPUs and drivers need to support CUDA 11.
Some older GPUs will not be compatible with this version of CUDA.

So with 16.2.7 release they updated their cuda compile to 11 for full compatibility with Ampere GPU. It is my limited understanding that you can obtain compatibility with a lower release of cuda BUT it must be altered to support Ampere, and we've never had a release that did that. In regards to Ampere using older CUDA these comments are made

 – Supported via forward compatibility. Optimized device libraries must be compiled at runtime from an unoptimized version. Support can be limited and you might see errors and unexpected behaviour. For more information, see Forward Compatibility for GPU Devices.

 – By default, this architecture is not supported. You can enable support by enabling forward compatibility for GPU devices. You might see errors and unexpected behaviour. For more information, see Forward Compatibility for GPU Devices.

So just currently RogerS, I don't believe VP18(434) has full compatibility with rtx3000 series GPU's based on user experiences and updates stating compatibility.

Grazie wrote on 2/3/2021, 1:10 AM

Hells Teeth Batman!
 

This a Bummer for NVENC Encoding. So, my replacement RTX3080, when it’s available, I’m still waiting, can be made Compatible but will not be Optimised to take advantage of the new, outstanding AMPERE Technologies.

Last changed by Grazie on 2/3/2021, 1:12 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Grazie

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Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

RogerS wrote on 2/3/2021, 2:05 AM

VP 18 did update which protocols it worked with, why is why compatibility dropped for older cards, I believe. So periodically Magix does appear to do this.

We still haven't seen apples to apples benchmarks, so I think it's premature to say what the performance will be with VP 18 today. (I nudged TechGage today- if anyone knows them, ask them to update the Vegas benchmarks they have been running on a variety of modern hardware).

When you get your card Grazie, we gotta get you to do the VP user benchmark at least : )

Grazie wrote on 2/3/2021, 2:13 AM

@RogerS - So, do we know NVENC will be optimised or not? Or am I the unwilling Donkey? Seriously is there anything I can inform the PC HOSPITAL to do to install the “correct” or NVENC-aware drivers?

fr0sty wrote on 2/3/2021, 2:18 AM

VEGAS does not use CUDA at all, it is a proprietary format that requires licensing, VEGAS uses OpenCL (to the best of my knowledge, I'm not speaking from a well informed perspective though). The NVENC chips did not change at all from the 16 GTX series through the new RTX 30 series, as pointed out above, so its performance will remain the same.

Last changed by fr0sty on 2/3/2021, 2:18 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

RogerS wrote on 2/3/2021, 2:22 AM

So, do we know NVENC will be optimised or not? Or am I the unwilling Donkey? Seriously is there anything I can inform the PC HOSPITAL to do to install the “correct” or NVENC-aware drivers?

You will be the perfect donkey for us : )
But no, there's nothing you need to specify. Just install the latest NVIDIA Studio drivers as usual and if you do the benchmark we can see if you outperform 20XX cards using similar CPUs as yours.

JN- wrote on 2/3/2021, 5:08 AM

@Grazie You're at the centre of this little storm, the universe will survive, or not, depending on your results. The whole world is watching. Don’t drop it😂

You can post only your render times, as previously plus Avg FPS, if there are no other HW changes except the GPU. Or, if you wish, the full data as before. Really looking forward to this result.

Last changed by JN- on 2/3/2021, 5:18 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link here.

Benchmarking thread

Codec Render Quality tables

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..32 GB DDR4, was previously 16 GB

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070

Graphics driver .. latest studio

Grazie wrote on 2/3/2021, 6:46 AM

@Grazie You're at the centre of this little storm, the universe will survive, or not, depending on your results. The whole world is watching. Don’t drop it

@JN- Yeah....So no pressure-huh?

Or, if you wish, the full data as before. Really looking forward to this result.

@JN- Sure.

MONSTA! Update: RTX3080 installed and PC going through a day’s worth of Testing. Extra Drives ordered too should be getting it ALL back this weekend OR early next week 😉.

TheRhino wrote on 2/3/2021, 4:10 PM

So in THIS THREAD I benchmarked the $400 USD RTX 3060 Ti in Vegas 18.373 and noted that it performed about as good as my $350 VEGA 64 LQ. Techgage shows how other apps make better use of the 3xxx series, so IMO, the 3xxx series is a better choice for the future vs. the RTX 2xxx or Radeon RX 6xxx / 5xxx...

That said, I returned my 3060 Ti, and will postpone upgrading a 2nd Vegas workstation for now... Unlike the bulky fan-cooled 3060 Ti's that are currently available, my VEGA 64 is liquid-cooled, so it does NOT block the adjacent PCIe slot on my motherboard... The whole 9900K / VEGA 64 LQ upgrade only cost $1350 and runs silent which is good for my voice overs & other sound work that benefits from Vegas' efficient track-based approach...

IMO, critical to Vegas' upcoming (Apple-approved) ProRes RAW & BRAW support will be how well they utilize the new GPUs to assist these power-hungry codecs... So improved 3xxx support may come when they roll-out RAW support which I need ASAP... Actually, rather than upgrade the 2nd Vegas workstation I am replacing my aging Mac Pro with the best (used) OSX hardware I can afford ASP because demand for ProRes RAW, BRAW & FCP collaboration is increasing... Even if Vegas supports ProRes RAW I have to do some projects in FCP...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

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(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
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Workstations A, B & C are older 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

lenard wrote on 2/4/2021, 4:14 AM

VEGAS does not use CUDA at all, it is a proprietary format that requires licensing, VEGAS uses OpenCL (to the best of my knowledge, I'm not speaking from a well informed perspective though). The NVENC chips did not change at all from the 16 GTX series through the new RTX 30 series, as pointed out above, so its performance will remain the same.

There's been a number of people that have commented on the slow Nvenc with 3000 series cards, but they don't stick around long enough to get to the bottom of anything, and there's also the problem with the GPU being much slower than it should be based on performance gains between the users existing gpu and the new card on other software

Vegas does use the gpu engine called CUDA in TaskManger but I don't know the relevance of that, Maybe it happens in translating OpenCl to Cuda, but in the end, Vegas is talking to the new card, but I think you're saying all Vegas may need is the appropriate Nvidia drivers as it's not using Cuda. There still appears to be a problem with ampere cards, just need a community member to verify

 

R6VegasX wrote on 2/4/2021, 10:44 PM

Does Vegas 18 Pro already support Rtx 3000 GPUs or is anyone already successfully rendering videos via nvenc with an rtx 3000 gpu here?

The link above had an answer to that question, so no need to speculate: yes.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/nvidia-3060-ti-vegas-18-benchmarks--126075/#ca790162

NVIDIA GPUs appear to have the same encoder from the 1650 Super to the 3090.
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new#Encoder

The 9.1 changes don't appear to be needed for compatibility, rather for performance optimization and to take advantage of new capabilities.

Alright so this is incorrect on many levels. It's obvious the cards do not work as intended in Magix when the render speed is slower than with a cpu. So yes, theoretically I can use the gpu but it will give me no benefit, great "compatibility".
Answer from the Magix support: "Thank you for your message. NVIDIA RTX 30 series aren't fully supported in VEGAS Pro 18 as of yet but it is something that we are working on at this time."
Fact is I have a 3070 mobile and the render speed is barely faster than Intel Quick Sync on my quadcore Surface Pro 7 plus Magix themselves admit they got work to do.
I tried https://www.voukoder.org/ but the render speed is essentially the same.
 

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2021, 11:17 PM

@R6VegasX Where's your benchmark data? That's the problem with these broad statements- we don't know if we're comparing like to like or if there are confounding factors. Are we talking AVC? HEVC? 4K? HD? The only real data we have is from Rhino.

Addendum: QSV can also be quite quick (well quick and dirty rendering) so the quality isn't the same as NVENC on newer cards. If the GPU is the same speed as CPU only (no QSV), then that's a different story.

Last changed by RogerS on 2/4/2021, 11:21 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700 with Intel 630 iGPU, dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit
Vegas 17.424
Vegas 18.434

R6VegasX wrote on 2/5/2021, 7:53 AM

@R6VegasX Where's your benchmark data? That's the problem with these broad statements- we don't know if we're comparing like to like or if there are confounding factors. Are we talking AVC? HEVC? 4K? HD? The only real data we have is from Rhino.

Addendum: QSV can also be quite quick (well quick and dirty rendering) so the quality isn't the same as NVENC on newer cards. If the GPU is the same speed as CPU only (no QSV), then that's a different story.

So basically, my "benchmark" is fairly simple.
I create videos on Youtube for a living. Each day I upload a 19-20 minute video. Mainly audio content with always the same videos in between as well as pictures.
I just tested the following today:

To render todays video @1080p30fps MAGIX HVEC/AVC MP4 Format VIA NVENC, Variable Bitrate min 12 million bps, max 13 million bps, nv encoder, preset default, rcmode vbr - it takes me 10:34 Minutes on my home PC (9700k @5ghz and overclocked RTX 2070 Super with 32gb ram)

To render todays video @1080p30fps MAGIX HVEC/AVC MP4 Format VIA NVENC, Variable Bitrate min 12 million bps, max 13 million bps, nv encoder, preset default, rcmode vbr - it takes me 20:26 Minutes on new laptop (Ryzen 5900hx and overclocked RTX 3070 Mobile with 16gb ram)

Tests were done using the newest studio driver, battery mode set to highest performance in windows and nvidia control panel.

Pretty clear to me (as well as the MAGIX Support team which confirmed that these cards aren't fully supported yet, but maybe you know more than them) that at least in my case the RTX 3070 mobile is not correctly supported yet with the given NVENC Magix preset(s).

"Addendum": I wouldn't call Rhinos benchmarks very useful either because Nvidia GPUS with NVENC and AMD gpus are two different pairs of shoes.

RogerS wrote on 2/6/2021, 5:18 AM

Oh good, data. Are you rendering to HEVC or AVC? These are different formats.

Could you also render using Mainconcept with both computers so we have a reference for comparison? Try any renders with cold start after boot, or at least with a break between any other intensive activities in case there are any heat issues.

What's the laptop model? During the render, is it throttling and hitting power or thermal limits? Try to install Throttlestop or similar software and observe whether it throttles. If the laptop reduces power to the GPU, or never supplies adequate wattage, it may perform slower than a 2XXX card overall (NVIDIA is now forcing makers to publicly disclose power limits for the 3XXX cards for laptops to give buyers the info they need).

The Magix comment is unclear as to what they mean by not fully supported. Limited support for new features or just not working overall? When you open task manager/performance do you see encoding activity while rendering with the 3070 card?

Andreas84 wrote on 2/21/2021, 2:29 PM

Hi

I would like to share my experience with you: 

As a hobby I edit short shots from my Fujifilm XT3 (4k, 60fps, 10bit, 4:2:0, LongGOP, h.265) with color grading and some simple text effects.

I used Vegas pro 18 on my Intel NUC 8 (i5, 16GB, int. Gaphics IRIS 655) and was quite satisfied. There was some lag in the preview window and adding effects was a bit slow. But it wasn't totally bad.

Last week I decided to buy a new PC for editing (10700k, 32GB, RTX 3070) and I am so disappointed. I tested all driver combinations and probably all settings in Vegas.... I can barely look at the preview.... it stutters so much.

Do you guys have any news on this issue yet?

I'm about to send the PC back....

j-v wrote on 2/21/2021, 2:45 PM

1. Do a fresh install or reset of the program and change nothing in the settings of Preferences /Video and Preferences File I/O

2. Download and install the needed drivers at Help/ Check for Drivers Updates

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RogerS wrote on 2/21/2021, 6:04 PM

Not sure any computer can handle 10bit 4K60p HEVC in real time (though if any can it's yours). If j-v's good advice doesn't work, create proxy files for now and shoot 24p except when you want slow motion.

Andreas84 wrote on 2/22/2021, 3:00 AM

Hi j-v and RogerS,

thank you for your feedback.

I have reset all settings in Vegas and renewed the driver of the internal GPU. Unfortunately without success.

But with task-manager open I have found out that only one setting in Vegas (File I/O -> activate older HEVC decoding) makes the difference in whether the iGPU or the RTX 3070 is used for playback in the preview window. An there is no difference in performance.

The rendering performace (into the standard profile "Internal UHD 2160p 59,94 fps NVENC") is about twice the time of the clip length.

Is there any similar experience or is anyone interested in testing the recording on your vegas timeline ?