I found that with m2t files from my Canon XH-A1, the HDV 25mbp 50i template, customised to CONSTANT 25mbp smart renders m2t straight from the cam.

Leggie,

Vegas 8.1 does not have smart-render for anything, HDV included. Actually, 8.1 is a pathetic toy more than anything, if you use it for a few days you can tell it's just an alpha software that may be useful for some situations, but not to use as the main editor. Not only it doesn't provide smart-render for HDV, you'll also notice that about half the times you open it the source files in the project do not load, instead you get an error message saying the files can't be found. If you cancel that and close and then re-open Vegas 8.1, and then open the same project, the files load. This happens to everybody but Sony Creative still has to release a patch for that, even though 8.1 is about a year old, and they are so negligent that the same bug is in the 64 bit version of Vegas 9.

So, if you, like me, really like the Vegas interface even though it's filled with bugs, you can use one of the 8.0 versions, the best is 8.0b, or 8.0c if it works for you, because c is more unstable than b. Vegas 9, at least for now, especially for AVCHD, is absolute junk.

Oh dear. All the replies so far are helpful and illuminating, if a little depressing. Since I've paid my money for Vegas, I don't really have the option to move to a different suite at the moment, so looks like I'm stuck with it for the moment.

Does anyone know if I can legally (as in activate and run) both 8.0c and 8.1 on the same computer?

On the off chance that there's something I'm missing in the settings, if someone were to look over these screenshots, I'd be grateful:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9167/screenshot0k.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6017/screenshot1w.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6348/screenshot2l.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/3648/screenshot3c.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9774/screenshot4x.jpg

Thanks!

Leggie

You can run both 8.0c and 8.1 and load the same project in both of them.

The only thing in your HDV output module that is wrong is that you have the field order set to progressive when it should be upper field, but regardless of that, 8.1 doesn't smart render.

"Vegas 9, at least for now, especially for AVCHD, is absolute junk. "

That's YOUR opinion.

My opinion... you're wrong. Of course you must be quite used to people telling you this.

I now have Adobe CS4 master collection at roughly 5 times the price of Vegas. Vegas does a better job. It's not Vegas that stinks with avchd... it's the avchd itself that stinks and is not ready for prime time.

Hi

AVCHD was I think part created by Sony so they should know how it works Sony sell Vegas 9 saying it supports AVCHD so it should

Other folk like corel pinnacle cyberlink all support it so why not vegas

If AVCHD is as bat as you say why is so much sofware around now with support for it and why are the camaras sellin well

Its easy really sony should say there flagship Vegas does not fully support AVCHD then users would know where they stood

Dave

There's a difference between supporting it and ACTUALLY having it work. Ulead was probably about the best out of the staring block, but today... of the NLE's that support avchd , vegas is now about the furthest ahead in an all-round general manor...... even with the bugs.

Pinnacle's output is quite soft, and has no AC3 import ability. Ulead and Cyberlink work (well) but are pretty basic..... like Vegas, none of these programs will do full renders at higher than 17Mbps.

Edius and FCP won't import it directly.

Adobe CS4 is the only one that I would say comes close to comparing with Vegas.... and there are certain advantages with PP and Encore.... I can render higher than 17 and the preview is slightly better than Vegas.... but then PP's audio ability stinks compared to Vegas... and that includes it's rather shabby approach to AC3... and it has no "smart render" which is pretty important with avchd.... the losses are too high without it.

There's a difference between supporting it and ACTUALLY having it work. Ulead was probably about the best out of the staring block, but today... of the NLE's that support avchd , vegas is now about the furthest ahead in an all-round general manor...... even with the bugs.

We've been through this many times, so I'll try to make it short. Vegas 8.0b and c work well enough to make AVCHD tolerable, Vegas 9, for AVCHD, is total junk. Your argument that the format itself is the culprit is not valid from the moment that Vegas 8 offers instant playback of AVCHD at full speed and Vegas 9 takes four seconds to get up to full speed. Same company, same format, same footage, older version works, new version doesn't. Simple as that. Hopefully they'll fix it. I still use Vegas 8.0c for all my editing, even though I have Premiere CS4 in the CS4 Production Premium. But Sony won't get a dime from me for 9 until they provide a decent product.

And you say that PP CS4 doesn't have smart render for AVCHD. Like Vegas 9 has it? I tested the V9 supposed smart-render. It's crap. It renders big chunks of footage that are totally untouched. Pixela Imagemixer, the toy editor that came with my Canon HF100, does perfect smart render and it's one year older than Vegas 9. So my answer to Sony and Vegas 9 is puhh-leeez!!!

"my Canon HF100, does perfect smart render and it's one year older than Vegas 9. "

Pixela doesn't smart render. In fact it doesn't render at all. Slight difference between a copier and a render engine. Try running vdub cartoonr in your precious pixela and see what happens.

As for 8c and version 9 comparisons.... apples and oranges. You're comparing a version that has been patched 3 times already with one that hasn't been patched ONCE yet. Please tell me you have enough smarts to figure at least this much out???

As for 8c and version 9 comparisons.... apples and oranges. You're comparing a version that has been patched 3 times already with one that hasn't been patched ONCE yet. Please tell me you have enough smarts to figure at least this much out???

No, comparing Vegas 9 and Adobe Illustrator is comparing apples and oranges. Vegas 8 may have been patched 3 times but I remember buying it when it was at version 8.0a and editing AVCHD without major problems, certainly it didn't take 3 seconds to get to full speed, and back then my CPU was a Core 2 Duo 2.4, now it's a Quad Core 2.66.

The way I see it, releasing a new version of a product that works worse than the previous version is totally unacceptable, unprofessional and an insult to loyal customers.

"I remember buying it when it was at version 8.0a and editing AVCHD without major problems,"
Apples and oranges again. 8a was patched once.... did you buy any chance try the original 8? I did.... it wasn't rosy.


"The way I see it, releasing a new version of a product that works worse than the previous version is totally unacceptable, unprofessional and an insult to loyal customers."
You remind me of the not-so-smart people who sit there and state "well... I remember Vegas 4.... it was so stable"

Well... duh... It was a completely different program.

Version 9 is not the same program as 8. If you look inside the internal settings you will see about 6 to 12 additional settings in the preview section alone. These programs do nothing but get more and more complicated with each passing version..... And they get more complicated because people like you whine and bellyache when they don't.

Now.... if you want to compare versions that's fine... but let's do it properly, shall we? Compare the ORIGINAL 8 with this original 9 (8 was a bit of a mess... and I know for a FACT that it didn't work well with avchd. In fact if I remember correctly, the only avchd it could (barely) handle was the avc from SONY cameras.

Leggie, if you're working with HDV I would recommend 8.0c. They introduced a new HDV codec (that Sony call a "reader") that I found better than the one in 8.0b (and presumably 8.1). I've successfully done tons of HDV smart-rendering in 8.0c, although most of it was 1080-60i. The HDV codec in 8.0b had some glitches including repeat frames at the end of clips etc..

8.0b was not my best friend, either . . .
Sticking with 8.0c for now until all the "future" stuff with AVCHD, 64 bit, Win7, i7, etc., etc. is resolved . . .

8.0c is stable as a rock for me right now, on both XP Pro and Vista.

Hi

Well said Sebaz

You are quite right

Do you manage to get 8.0c to smart render with mts or m2ts files ?

If you do any chance you could pm me a link to download one to try here please

Eric C of sony support says he has files that will smart render but cannot let me try one 'cos they dont like test files being used by end users

Dave

"Do you manage to get 8.0c to smart render with mts or m2ts files ?"

As already stated several times now... different programs. Vegas 8 has no smart render for avchd. It's one of the many new features to version 9.

Thank you for proving my point.

8.0c doesn't have smart-render for AVCHD. 9 is supposed to have it, but at least for now it's useless, because it doesn't only renders the small portions around cuts or events you apply filters to, it also renders events that are completely untouched.

"8.0c doesn't have smart-render for AVCHD. "

Like I said... different program.

As for the bugs.... they're working on it.

And BTW... it's not useless.... just bugged. It WILL do a full smart render... you just can't use effects or transitions on the time line in combination. But if you simply butt your clips together, it will smart render.

In a sense... it's about the equivalent to your pretty little Pixila program at the moment ;)

And BTW... it's not useless.... just bugged. It WILL do a full smart render... you just can't use effects or transitions on the time line in combination. But if you simply butt your clips together, it will smart render.

It is definitely not. If you "butt" your clips together, but you cut a few frames or a few seconds either at the beginning or at the end, it smart-renders some events, and some other events are re-rendered in full, for no good reason at all, since they don't have any filters. So, again, Vegas 9 for AVCHD is useless, not because of the lack of smart-render, but because it takes four freaking seconds to playback at full speed.

Hi Guys

I've been trying a few things out here, looking closer at Cyberlink Espresso - odd set up with that, the frame rate output of the software depends on the locale of the pc that it's on. So USA will be 29970 fps, the UK locale gives 25000 fps

But I've now found something else, the specs for my Canon HG10 camera says it captures the image at 1920 x 1080 and that's what it outputs through it's HDMI cable, but the image is down converted to 1440 x 1080 to record onto it's HD

So, I put two of my Canon files with my system at UK locale into Espresso but asked for a 1920 x 1080 output and when the output file goes in to Vegas 9, it smart renders both files, even with a 1 second overlap

That tells me something strange is going on. And I'll tell you something even stranger, if I take one of my HD files straight from my camera, in Vegas it shows it's 1440 x 1080, but put the same file into the freeware media info and it shows that it isn't that at all - it shows the Canon file as 1920 x 1080

I did see on another forum it was suggesting that the Canon really did record 1920 x 1080 but it was amophoric, which would make it 1440.

Does anyone know of a programme to change the format setting of a file that would be worth a go set the canon file to 1920 x 1080 and put that into vegas

I don't know if this means anything. I sure can't understand it all - how about you guys ?

Dave

I really, really don't understand the extreme dislike, should I say near hate, for AVCHD among some around here.

AVCHD is simply an extension of the MPEG-2 compression scheme. It is not evil. It compresses with higher efficiency and requires more computational power to work with. That's all.

I DO NOT expect Vegas to handle AVCHD with the speed that it handles MPEG-2. As I said, AVCHD is more complex to encode and decode.

On the other hand I don't think it is unreasonable to as for a few AVCHD improvements from Vegas, namely...

SmartRender
Two-Pass rendering options that are compliant with DVDA
A 1080/30p template that is DVDA compliant

I'm willing to wait on Sony. I just hope SmartRender and more flexible and better DVDA compliant Blu-Ray encoding options are coming.

- Mark

"but you cut a few frames or a few seconds either at the beginning or at the end, it smart-renders some events,"

Do you have a hearing/reading problem??
What did I say..... I said it's bugged which prevents that. I also said if you butt your clips together it smart renders fine. I also said they're working on the issue.

Dave,

That tells me something strange is going on. And I'll tell you something even stranger, if I take one of my HD files straight from my camera, in Vegas it shows it's 1440 x 1080, but put the same file into the freeware media info and it shows that it isn't that at all - it shows the Canon file as 1920 x 1080

I had a Canon HF 10, and I think I remember, that unless you opt for the absolutely highest recording quality and use Class 4 (or even Class 6) SD card or the internal memory, you will record in 1440 x 1080 1,3333 pixel aspect ratio.
If you use an external SD card, and this card is not fast enough, the camera will shift to a lower quality gear, without notifying you. This is the most probable explanation of "something strange is going on".

ingvarai