Vegas seems to read timecode out of DV-AVI files in a "novel" way...

JoeSh wrote on 4/17/2004, 1:57 PM
Hi Folks
I have a bunch of clips that I captured using vidcap that, according to Vegas 4, start at TC 00:00:00:00. However, when I look at them in any other timecode-aware app (say Scenalyzer or FCP) the timecode is there and correct.

I'm PRETTY SURE that while these clips were being captured vidcap crashed. I'm also pretty sure that , once vidcap is done, it tweaks all the clips in some way such that Vegas can read their timecode. It seems like vidcap caches the timecode somewhere in the clip other than where most apps look for it. So...

1. How can I update the "broken" clips so that Vegas can read the timecode? I know I can set a custom timecode in a Vegas project but this is cumbersome and doesn't "stick" across projects.

2. Why doesn't Vegas look where most apps look to find the timecode?

3. If there's a good reason for (2) above, why doesn't Vegas update the clip if it finds no timecode (just like it does when creating a .sfk file)?

Comments

filmy wrote on 4/17/2004, 2:45 PM
I am not sure I follow you with the "captured using vidcap that, according to Vegas 4, start at TC 00:00:00:00". You sure you don't mean clips captured outside of Vegas or, in other words, *not* with vidcap? What I have found is this - capture with SCLive and TC info will read fine in Vegas and it will also read fine in Premiere. Now capture with Premiere. TC will *not* read in Vegas (As you say - reads with TC of 0), but reads fine in SCLive. Now capture with vidcap - TC will *not* read in Premiere but will read in SCLive.

This also goes to my offline/online issue. I can take a file and down size it and in both Premiere and SCLive the TC will match perfectly with the hi-rez file...and both SCLive and Premiere will read both the hi-rez and low-rez TC. I bring the lo-rez file into Vegas and TC reads as zero. Beyond that I have noticed that in Vegas the "recapture all media" option is only available when working with DV files so even if Vegas did read the TC info from a non-dv file I am not sure it would allow for recapture. (But having said that with HDV and HD editing for Vegas I would gather this whole conversation might be null in a week)

Now - While you can assign TC to a file Vegas does not actually write that timecode info to the file, so really the only use I can find for this feature is as it relates to the project you are working on at that second. Now I know there has been some debate about this next thing but - if you add effects and what not and than render out the file all date/time/time code info is erased. However this seems to depend - going back to the discussion people have had about getting the date/time info to display I found out that date/time/tc info *is* retained after re-render in some cases. A few years ago I cut a promo using Vegas. I rendered out that promo. When this whole topic came up I ran that rendered promo through the free dv_datecode program and at each edit there was the info - date/time/tc info was retained from the orginal. Some of it was not correct info mind you but the info changed with the cuts. In the cases of correct time code info, that material had been captured in Vegas with the vidcap tool. Any of the material that was captured in Premiere had incorrect TC info. Any Vegas generated text came up as "0" (which it would anyway unless you could write TC to it). Material that had been dubbed from Betacam to DV came up with strange info and dates, all i could figure was somehow userbit info on the TC side got transfered.

As for the actual TC info - I do not know where Vegas reads the info from but as I say it can read it in files caputred with SCLive fine..and that same file will read in Premiere fine. So SCLIve at least writes and reads TC info across the NLE's. Some times the info is in the header, sometimes in the footer - there is a good program out there that will read and re-write TC info from most any NLE but Ironicly this same program will return an error of "TC unavailable" on any files captured with vidcap - example that follows is output in [file name], [timecode], [tape number] format - file captured in Premiere info - "slayers19.avi","00;48;08;14","sla" / Vegas captured info - "VAHR4 - lights go out.avi","TC unavailable","VAH")

This is something I have asked before in thread about SCLive as well as EDL support and never really have gotten any answers about what SCLive does that Vegas doesn't as far as TC info reading/writing.
taliesin wrote on 4/17/2004, 4:01 PM
>> I have a bunch of clips that I captured using vidcap that, according to Vegas 4, start at TC 00:00:00:00.

Where did you use the Vegas timecode function? And which way did you use it? When the clips are on the timeline - did you try opening the "Edit Details" window (Alt+4)? The timecode given there always seems to be correct here. Also if I apply the timecode filter onto the clips in the MediaPool the timecode displays correct. Whereas applying the timecode filter onto clips in the timeline is not meant to show the original timecode, but only the timeline timecode or (dependent on preferences) the events timecode.

Marco
JoeSh wrote on 4/17/2004, 4:06 PM
filmy - I don't have a deck (or camera) handy but might you try this test for me: start vidcap capturing a tape (with multiple clips). Then use Task Manager to kill it before it finishes. I'm PRETTY SURE that the resulting DV-AVI files that vidcap has captured will exhibit "no timecode" in Vegas but WILL have timecode in SCLive.

There APPEARS to be a post-processing pass that vidcap does after it captures all the clips in a session. This post step seems to tweak the AVI files to that Vegas can see the timecode.
JoeSh wrote on 4/17/2004, 4:12 PM
Marco - I really am doing the right thing here. I've looked at the clip timecode in the details view, the vidcap "Print to Tape" view, and even using the file-based, not timeline-based, timecode filter. Actually I sorted on Start TC in the Details view in order to find the (10 or so out of 100) clips that had 0 timecode.
Udi wrote on 4/17/2004, 11:05 PM
I bellive that vidcap store the information in the .sfvidcap. At post processing it also store the info in the .avi file.
You can specify the media TC to use in, in the media pool select the clip properties and select custom TC.
If the clip is shown in vidcap, you can get the correct TC in the clip properties there.

Udi