Jesus, what do you need man? Search around...

You have a PC? avoid digi 001, Motu. I don't care what kind of deal you're getting - two of shit is still shit. A great deal on shit...is still shit.

Go with what best working for others out there on PC (RME, Echo, Maudio).
Then look into Sonar 2.2.

But...
You're gonna do what you're gonna do in the end.

You can bring a horse to water....

JoeD

I disagree.

Are you speaking from hands on experiance with the DIGI ASIO drivers and the MOTU drivers?

The ASIO drivers for the Digi hardware are very solid in my testing and usage. The MOTU 424 drivers are also very stable, though they prevent the 324 hardware from using the Cuemix panel.


Peter

Man, you should know by now that JoeD doesn't speak from much more than his limited experience.
Just use the same stuff that he does and think like he does and the whole world will be happy...


or not.

Think outside the box guys....

There are other applications other than vegas\acid (hello??). Those who use midi and audio (sonar 2.2 users certainly aren't happy).

It's great you NOW use ASIO for your tracker, many don't. **it wasn't until recently when V4 added ASIO functionality.

Peter, Motu and digi001 drivers solid? Man, I'm calling bullshit. The ratio of happy "PC" daw users with Motu is piss poor.
I challenge you to find more happy digi001 users with a PC over RME, Maudio, Echo.

I've used RME, Maudio, motu, echo, PT, ...just about all of them. I'm not saying this to hinder the reader here...I'm just offering what I know based on past experience. That's all I can do, the rest is up to you.

But don't just take my word for it...
I'm sorry, there is a real daw world outside these SF forums people. I can go to any number of sites and gather more horror stories on the digi and motu to choke a friggin yak.

>>I'm sorry, there is a real daw world outside these SF forums people. I can go to any number of sites and gather more horror stories on the digi and motu to choke a friggin yak.
<<
And I could find just as many horror stories on those very same forums concerning the hardware that you have recommended, so what is your point?

The Digi ASIO drivers are VERY stable.
I've run SX, Vegas 4.0, Acid 4.0, most of the NI stuff, Moog Modular V, Tassman, Reason 2.5, Lounge Lizard, ReBirth, and ReCycle, not one crash from the day I installed them.
The only thing I can say bad about Digi's drivers is that you will not be able to have CWD and ASIO installed at the same time.

I found out about the MOTU 424 instead 324 driver after I sold most of my MOTUs and Gena and Darlas.

George Ware

Hey JoeD, think outside the cliche.

My MOTU 324-based system works just fine, especially since Peter found a workaround for the "24 bit packing driver format" shortcoming of Windows.

geoff

The ratio of horror stories per model.


I have no reason to bicker further on it really.

There are other applications other than vegas\acid (hello??). Those who use midi and audio (sonar 2.2 users certainly aren't happy).

JoeD

>>There are other applications other than vegas\acid (hello??). Those who use midi and audio (sonar 2.2 users certainly aren't happy).
<<
Perhaps it is the software they are not happy with.

Besides, who cares? This is a Vegas discussion group.

Peter

JoeD,
Obviously has a problem with reading in general. Uhhh...the title says "Vegas v. Pro Tools". I would think that would mean the user already has done some shopping and has narrowed down his choices. Otherwise it might read "Midi/audio software recommendations?".

Here's another time JoeD shows his reading skills:

JoeD said:
"....all to accomplish what could be done in Sonar 2.2?
***ask around and check on support for "STUDIO VISION" by the way. I like an Atari ST for MIDI sometimes...but would I suggest it?"

That's really entertaining JoeD, because I never suggested "Studio Vision" for the user. I pointed out, that's what I currently use for MIDI and is no longer available, and then suggested he should look into something like "Cakewalk, Logic Audio, or Cubase" if he really wants to use Vegas for audio. Then you come in and suggest "Sonar".....ahhhh.....brilliant recommendation, good thing you read my post and understood it. Sonar? Isn't that what Cakewalk is? Good recommendation Joe, obviously if you didn't say it, then it's never been mentioned.

It's funny how you're so eager to jump on the equipment I use to get my work done. Yet, Studio Vision was an industry standard for MIDI in most recording studios, running along side Protools. Sonar, was a kids program. It shows where our background experiences differ now doesn't it?

How about this contradictory statement?
JoeD said:
"Those who use midi and audio (sonar 2.2 users certainly aren't happy)."

Wow!!! good recommendation, in suggesting something that users "aren't happy" with, while I say I'M USING "Vegas and Studio Vision" and am a very happy user for my MIDI and AUDIO needs. So what is it really JoeD? What is your recommendation? On one side of you're mouth, you're saying a combined Midi/Audio application isn't any good, and out the other side you're saying seperate Midi/audio applications isn't any good. Good going, keep talking out both sides of your mouth.

I think after all that, all the users here have come to the conclusion, you're really talking out your ass.



Looks to me from this post that you're the one swimming in "Lake me", and if anyone doesn't do what you say, then they just can't get any work done. Uhhhh...hello Joe!? There's a real DAW working world out there, and you're not in it buddy.

Hugs and kisses,
Red

Joe is Right in some respects :
I have used the following H/W with Vegas- some new some old,
most are EOL (End Of Life)

MOTU 2408 MK1
MOTU 2408 MK2
Korg 1212 I/O
Sonorus StudI/O (2 card and 1 Card Config)
Lexicon Core 2
Delta 1010
Delta 410
ADB Digital Multiwav Pro

Here's what bugs I know about that are annoying:
MOTU 2408 MK1 - Was a nightmare when it came out, with hardware and s/w revisions it became more stable.
MOTU 2408 MK2 - Much more stable on market launch than MK1, getting better drivers, however MOTU still can't write a control panel to save their life -- their routing portion of the panel is totally broken (they have admitted this) the applet has a memory leak so if you use it to enable let's say input 2 to a function it will enable input 3, or input 1 to that function. However, the ASIO is WAYYYY better, because the bug is in their Direct HEX driver as related to that control panel. One reason I switched to the 2408 MK2 because I needed the possibility of having more than 32 outputs from the PC.
With the Crappy "Your Motherboard onboard devices (such as USB) Hogs all the IRQ's even if you don't want it to" trend for modern motherboard design, I decided this was the best way to go. Seems like every PCI slot is unstable because it is tied to some onboard POS hardware function even if you have a stripped down MB, and disable any onboard drvices (USB, LAN, 1394, CrapBlaster Sound, Raid) The good news is this unit's interface card takes up only 1 slot for up to 72 channels (at playback only) so there are less issues because it's taking 1 slot, and 1 IRQ. I'm Using both MK1 and MK2 together under Win2K on one machine. Lock all the mixing boards and studio devices to it or you will NEVER be able to do anything. It WILL NOT slave properly. Once I did this it worked great. Before doing this it was a nightmare.

Sonorus - I was using 2 Sonorus Cards, but the cards never seemed to work properly together, all the time. They would work ok sometimes, and not others, appeared to be affected by temp??? and was never able to actually record 24 channels at a time, although I could play 32 channels back almost perfectly. This was using Vegas 2 and 3, with the Direct Hex / windows whatever drivers. VERY stable with 1 card, but add a second card and you are in for a nightmare. (Paid about $150 for 1 and $250 used for the other - for $400 I got my money's worth, but for $600 each new, don't bother)

Korg 1212 I/O - I originally used this card first (Paid $1000 for it, goes for about $100 now) and it was a "Excessive PCI Activity - dialog box" nightmare on an AMD K6 system (but who cares) after switching to a P2-300 it was nearly flawless. But it is only 12 channels at most, so it would not even be usable in a real life studio situation, EXCEPT a MIDI based studio / project studio where you were using drum machines or a small drum kit. Record the Scratch Vocals and Guitar Tracks on the SPDIF or Noisy ANALOG and the drums on the ADAT Lighpipe. Great for a Mixdown machine card, win98 or MacOs 9 only. I have this in my Macintrash now.

Lexicon Core 2 - Only 4 analog inputs? Too bad. Win98 supoprt only. Pretty stable in 2 machines, highly unstable in 1 machine. Tested on Win98 only. Works well with Vegas 2.0 and Sforge, and wavelab. Not bad for mastering, especially old records. Made a great father's day present for dad who has 5,000+ lp's and wants to transfer about 100 of those to Cd (as they are unavaliable) CHEAP, like priced somewhere between Free (used) and $199 when last sold new . I had 2 of these, I sold one. At least you can record on the 8 adat ins and the 4 analog ins athe same time. On the same line as 1212 I/O, but adds 24 bit analog, and DBX type NR....

Delta 1010 - Great interface, some flaws in Vegas 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0. Midi Interface combined, nice feature. Not enough I/O, should have added ADAT Optical ofr 16 I/O's at a price of $500+. Work around tracks being out of time in Vegas by setting winXP driver to use SPDIF for windows sounds, use only 8 analog connections for audio work. Othersiwse tracks will be out of time for some reason or another.

Delta 410 - Slightly Noisy but acceptable better than a Ghetto Blaster sound card. On a budget, you might be able to do a midi based 2 tracks-a-time-recording with this, due to only 2 analog ins. Ok for use in surround mixing (s/w only) situation like in Vegas Video. Bottom of the line with Xp drivers. Don't expect super hi-end audio....Good for recording a 2 channel mixing, mastering, and surround mixing capable. Use SPDIF for better performance when combined with a digital mixer or analog mixer with an outboard A/D converter, to play back from your multitrack machine, be it a 24 channel equipped PC or HDD recorder.

ADB Digital - an OLD AES -EBU equipped 16 bit sound card with SPDIF as well. ISA, End of Life yet has Win2K/NT drivers. Go figure. I still use this for mastering for CD.

Also stay away from echo's 20 bit models (gina,layla) but do look into the 24-bit echo cards of the same name.

I really suggest you look into RME man. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
I use 2 delta 1010s (synced via spdif) and havn't found a need to move yet, but f I had to it would be RME I would consider first.

Midi:

You could go for the older cakewalk 9 for midi only and use vegas alongside, but why? Sonar 2.2 is a better route if you know you'll be working with midi AND audio.
Cakewalk (used to be twelve tone) had cakewalk 9 on down, before their latest Sonar series if you listened to that confused reply from rednsnore.

jd

JoeD...

What are your Delta 1010 settings. I've just installed one in my system wi the 29x12 Pro drivers running on XP [standard pc]. I'm tweaking it right now so I would like a comparison to go by.

Ed.

"Also stay away from echo's 20 bit models (gina,layla)"

Oh yeah? And what is you're expertise information on that statement?

I run dual Gina20's, their drivers get updated regularly along with the 24bit models. They work flawlessly with Vegas. Of course you are going to tell me otherwise right?......oh, I forgot I'm not running Delta 1010's, so how could I EVER get any work done?

Is that more talking from out your ass I hear?

I run 3 Laylas 20bit with Vegas 4.0 on Win XP. Solid solid solid. I have no idea why JoeD says to stay away from them.

I also run 2 Ginas 20bit on another system. Solid solid solid.

"I have no idea why JoeD says to stay away from them."

Because he's not using them, obviously he makes the best purchases and any other thing that is different from his setup is flawed. That's pretty cut and dry from any of his posts. It's JoeD's way or NO way.

I dont know if this is fixed but the older echo drivers ( like back in the dark ages, 2001 or before) let the windows media volume comtrol panning and volume of the echo Spdif port!!!!

totally screwed!

in fact even if you shuit the media app, and days later after a few reboots went ot use your SPDIF, it would be however windows media decided to set it...

this makes for some fun surprises at the mastering lab

back then I emailed echo and they said nothing ould be done to fix it. Hopefully theyve found something

(yet another sigh for the moron red)....

We've been through this you bore...I DO OWN A GINA 20 BIT, it IS installed on an XP system right now, I gave it to my wife long ago (who probably has clocked triple the hours using it with her DAW than the sum of time you spend typing in this msg forum),
The beta drivers still ARE NOT what I would reccomend to anybody who's serious (except of course YOU, cause you're an idiot, but .....hey).

I got your "purewave" right here btw. You need to be reminded that vegas isn't the only audio application people will use? Really?
Read the differences between the 24 and 20-bit model drivers once, will ya tiger?

but the most compelling reason to go gina layla 24...

24-bit model with for just a little more!!!

*I do support echoaudio. I think they're a great competitor, which is why I list them with Maudio, RME, etc.

Note: for those of you that are new to rednidiot'd reply game, he needs to vocalize all this angst he has for me because I seem to have hit the mark pretty close in placing him as a dabbler DAW work.
Which isn't a bad thing really, problem is HE wants to shout to you all of some fantastic prowess that we'll all never quite grasp (snoooooze). It oozes from his "look at me" replies.

NOBODY DOES THIS RED, YOU DON'T NEED THE ACT.

Of course, now he's going to try and paint a picture that I somehow would dislike echoaudio (???). Eeeeew boy.

No. if you're going to buy, buy the goddamn better models. It's common sense.

OK you losers....put your sh*t up or go home.

I think myself and everyone else who has to read through your 4th grade arguments are ready to see what makes you guys the authorities in daw discussions. I want a link to a song you have written, procduced, engineered and recorded, start to finish, all you. That'll prove your weight boys. And if you haven't written and recorded a song you must have produced, engineered and recorded many, many songs so one of those will do. Although, as high and mighty as you both act I would would assume you are brilliant songwriters as well.

So let us cut the bullsh*t and lay it out. People are here for information and help, not sermons from you two. Since we're forced to wade through your sh*t, prove to us why we should, and point us to your work.

I'll be the first to say that I am 100% amatuer, and not an authority on anything. If you want to see what I'm made of you can check out my seriously outdated web site, www.limitedwave.com, and you'll probably find some of my stuff. Keep in mind - the work there is the result of equipment investments totaling less than $2000, spread out over like 4 years. Hobbies grow slowly. I've only been using vegas for like a two months. Most of the tracks on that site were done in cakewalk...on a slow computer...painfully! My latest stuff is here: http://staging.csmg.com/xfr/bc.html and I'll give you that link too. That page has some of my Vegas work, rough mixes and all.

So you guys feel free to trash my stuff all day long, just make sure you give a link to yours.

Cheers.

Hey tough guy,

First of all, this forum isn't about advertising personal works (at least i thought it wasn't), However, had you done some simple web searching, you would know that my stuff has been up for your perusal for some time now.
And before I post some links, I will remind you that none of this has to do with the arguments in this thread, but merely re-posted in answer to your f*cked up question.

Some stuff:

www.joedoriamusic.com (all audio, engineering, includes discography with examples). See Hammond organ section
--------------------

marriot bros. (The In between time) \ playing piano:

http://www.johnwicks.com/mp3%27s/The%20Marriot%20Jazz%20Quintet%20-%20Track%2002.mp3
-----------------------------------------

78Nova (live at at The Sunset), playing rhodes\synth:

http://www.johnwicks.com/mp3%27s/78NOVA%20-%20Track%2005.mp3

-------------------------------------------
Steve Korn (Hammond on Pride and Joy album):

http://www.stevekorn.com/prideandjoy.htm

--------------------------
ATMA (http://www.atmagroove.com/media/html/flash_is_good.html)

Hammond organ

----------------------------------------------------

Chewy (playing hammond, rhodes, synth \ engineered) www.chewyonline.com

--------------------------------------------------------

Currently working on\wrapping up:

- saxophonist Skerik on his latest outing, SYNCOPATED TAINT.
Live CD coming soon on RopeaDope records.

- CD with L.A. guitarist, SkipHeller (www.skipheller.com)

- Duo cd (hammond n drums) with John Wicks


I have no idea what rednroll's been up to, so I won't speak for him. I'm sure he'll have a listing for ya though.

Really though, cosmo...
think before you post. I nor Red really should entertain this question in this forum, but I know you've been here for a while...so maybe your intentions are actually sincere.
This is the last time I'll entertain this kind of question however - so mark it bubba.

JoeD

I ain't tough dude, never claimed to be. Calling me Tough Guy is just a gay sub-stabb at my ego that's rather transparent and overused. I'd expect more from you Joe. I may have a foul mouth but that's culture.

I don't think you should repremand me for getting off topic when you make a career of it.

I didn't come to this forum to advertise my personal works. If my goal was to advertise personal works I would advertise them to a proper target audience, not an engineering based forum. My work is for me, my family and friends, mostly me. I've had offers from respectable labels but I like my comfy overpaid lifestyle and chose to keep on doing what I do. If I was advertising my work I would've updated my site within the last year. How did you say it...."think before you post"? Yes, that was it.

On to more important things...I think your stuff sounds pretty f*ckin good(not that you asked for, or care to hear my opnion). Not that I'm surprised, I figured as much cash and time as you put into this, it'd be good. And it is. Maybe not my bag as far as the music goes but that isn't the point. Some of those tracks sound as good as I'd ever want a track to sound, I'd love to get sound that good.

So why Joe, why do act like such an ass most of the time? Is it just Red that gets you goin? You've got more posts in this forum than damn near anybody. You have more experience with more varied equipment than most of us here. But instead of acting like that great mentor we all might be lucky to learn from, you act like an ass and get everyone pissed off at you....like a d*ckhead older brother.

Don't be that guy man. You've got the knowledge and experience to lead this crew, if you'd just grow up a little. Won't happen though. Predictable behavior. Sad loss.

>>I ain't tough dude, never claimed to be. Calling me Tough Guy is just a gay sub-stabb at my ego that's rather transparent and overused. I'd expect more from you Joe. I may have a foul mouth but that's culture.<<

Hey cosmo, looks like now you're caught up in the exact type of bantering you were criticising the others for. Engaging in this stuff is like using crack; one hit and you're off and running. . .

Lets go make some music! ;-)

drbam