I'll give that a go later; .. but I want the video aspect ratio to work fine on all standard 4:3 TVs and not change on switch ( as it is doing ) when played on my wide-screen.

Tbanks for your time.

there may be a misundstanding here ... SF gave you an answer that i think they assume your clips are 16x9 and you want 16x9 all the time ??? ... but to me it sounds like your have 4x3 material and only during the transitions it plays back 16x9 on your ext monitor ? ?

does it do the same if you watch the preview on your computer screen ??

does your TV detect 16X9 automatic ? does it only do this when you preview ( from time line)..have you tried rendering out a small section then play that back thru vid-capture program to your monitor ?

my monitor only goes into 16x9 if i switch it ....

Yes, there appears to be some confusion regarding the problem. I will do my best to explain..

Firstly, the clips are intended to be played back at normal 4:3 mode and have been made in 4:3 mode.

When I perform the task of having several or more clips in the timeline that have transitions outputted, whenever a transition [begins] the mode of the TV changes from 4:3 to one of the widescreen modes for the transition duration (in this case ‘superwide’) and then reverts back to 4:3 when the transition [ends].. and then repeats upon the next transition.

The problem also appears when previewing to the TV as an external device; so scrubbing/moving the timeline over the ‘transition’ portion of the timeline results in the same thing.. therefore is not a problem that happens during the ‘print to..’ or save process.

The same problem does -not- appear when using Adobe Premiere 6.0 and using any of its internal (or external - via plugin ) transitions; printing-to-tape or previewing externally. The video remains in any of the TV modes that are set.. i.e 4:3 throughout in this case with no switches during the transition period.

The Phillips widescreen TV does not have any ‘forced to remain’ in mode; and therefore some signal is being used at this time that causes the problem; thankfully Adobe Premiere does not.

Any help would be appreciated.. as I would dearly like to commit to VV3 totally.

Albeit the clips have been recorded for 4:3 there is a way to correct the problem if you change the clip properties for the pixel aspect in its preferences. To do this: Right click on the event and select properties | Media Tab | Pixel Aspect and set it to NTSC DV Widescreen. I hope this helps.

But I actually wish to keep the entire project at 4:3 - the fact that it is also being played on a Widescreen TV is inconsequential. Everything works fine until a transition comes into play and that causes the switch in modes.. obviously some signal is taking place here. I wonder how Vegas Video 3 is actually rendering the clips.. with some rogue signal creeping in, perhaps.. that is showing up on my end.

One other point to note is IF clips are placed side-by-side ( with no overlaps, therefore no actual transitions ) the video plays fine. Its simply when a transition is used that seems somehow to be leaking a signal out that Adobe Premiere is not doing..

Ok, you are not going out to widescreen, so you need to set your project to NTSC DV (normal, not widescreen) and create all your prerenders (including print-to-tape prerenders) using the NTSC DV template (again, not widescreen). From your description, it sounds like you are rendering to NTSC DV Wide, which would account for the "widescreen switch" in the rendered sections only.

Thats exactly what I have been doing; rendering *everything* using the PAL DV template [UK] from PAL 4:3 recorded video - and not widescreen [in order to keep everything correctly in 4:3 mode].. therefore *all* transitions are rendered as such, but still cause the TV to jump into widescreen mode at the start of the transition and then back to 4:3 at the end; -- one *important* factor to note here is that the 'actual' video that is generated througout is in 4:3 mode.. it does record the transition and *all* of the video in 4:3.. but seems to have some 'rogue signal' that is being picked up at each transition play that causes the TV to switch modes.

As explained earlier, I do not have any such problem with Adobe Premiere.

I really would like to resolve this matter.. if at all possible.

it would help if someone had a widescreen TV to test this on... preferably PAL. unfortunately i don't, but i think it needs to be done. obviously Vegas is triggering this 'widescreen' mode somehow, so we need to start by determining whether it happens on all widescreen TVs or just yours.

as an experiment, try compositing two video layers additively (forcing Vegas to render), and pre-rendering a section of video and then play through your time-line. if you can get the widescreen mode to trigger this way (when it hits the pre-rendered parts), or by doing anything else other than a transition, that should help SF figure it out.

has anyone else tested this problem?

- ben (cheesehole)

I did make mention earlier that there are no switches to *FORCE* the TV to remain in a specific mode. Many of todays Widescreen TVs will accept a signal from a program that will automatically change the TV into a specific mode; usually "WIDESCREEN" mode or back to 4:3. The Vegas Video 3 program is generating video at 4:3 but when (and this seems to be confusing a few here) it is being played back, either via 'scrubbing' (external) or generated video.. transition *starts* are causing the TV to change mode.. then at the end of the transition causing it to revert back. It is NOT a matter of the TV but a problem with Vegas Videos method of generating video. I have said several times that (and maybe I am wasting my time, never mind you - as this is making me wonder why I even bothered with VV3 in the first place) I DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH ADOBE PREMIERE 6.0; .. now, forgive me for sounding a little off.. but its one of those problems that kind of gets to you after a while as otherwise VV3 is exceptional (bar a shortable of credible plugins).

I'll do some further testing later Ben, then report back.

Some further information:

1) Placing video clips side by side with NO transitions and PREVIEWING the entire project has NO problems [therefore it relates purely to transitions]
2) Placing video clips so they OVERLAP with default transition (or any transition) and then PREVIEWING the project or PRINTING TO TAPE or SCRUBBING portions will always have the TV mode change at the START and END of each transition.
3) Placing video clips so they overlap with default transition (or any transition) and then RENDERING as "DV PAL" (.avi) then loading the file into VV3 (as a single clip, fresh project - with no other clips present) and PREVIEWING or PRINT-TO-TAPE shows the same problems at the 'transition' point.

Performing the very same tasks with Adobe Premiere 6.0 shows no problems what so ever.

It definately appears that there is some kind of signal being sent out at each transition start-and-end point that is causing some or all Widescreen TVs to act in this way. It would be silly to ignore this as a minor problem as many people in the future will be purchasing Widescreen TVs and may be surprised to watch video they had generated many moons ago playing back in this kind of way. If Adobe Premiere performs the task properly, the least that can be expected from an otherwise exceptional Sonic Foundry product is the same leve of performance.

Ok, I want to repro this exactly, so here's what I am doing:

External monitor is off- I am looking at the Vegas preview window.

I have set my brand new, empty project to the PAL DV template. (720x576x PAR 1.0926)

I put a PAL DV clip on the timeline. This clip matches the project (720x576x PAR 1.0926)

I play the clip, all is fine- looks like it is supposed to.

I split the clip, and drag the right clip to overlap the left clip, creating a crossfade.

I double click on the crossfade transition to create a loop selection.

I select tool>selectively prerender video, and I am given a prerender video dialog. I select PAL DV. It renders the crossfade.

I play from the timeline, starting at the first event, to the end of the second. The crossfade has been conformed correctly.

Question: Are you not seeing this?

Next- I turn on external monitor.

I check my Preferences>Video device, and I see a dropdown list:
"If project format is invalid for DV output, conform to the following:"...and I choose "PAL DV".

I watch the project on my external PAL monitor- all is well.

I add some new events and transitions, select the entire program, and preview without prerendering. Recompressed areas are conformed correctly- to PAL DV.

Are you not seeing this?

I really would like to find a bug if there is one, but I want to rule out incorrect settings first. If you have followed the exact steps outlined above, with no variations, and are still seeing the "switch", please send the project file to sonicepm@sonicfoundry.com and I'll take a look.

Sorry to hear about your problem. We WILL find the fix, or SF will fix it.
We need to have you do what the other person asked, force a render other than a transition. It could be an fx filter, or two video streams with one supered over the other. It could even be a title graphic.
To have two streams playing without a transition, set one video clip on a track above the other. On the top track, look over on the left side of the screen and lower the VIDEO LEVEL SLIDER. Now you'll have two streams playing and it will force a render.
Something else I just thought of. In project properties change the audio sample rate from 44.1K to 48K.
Is PAL DV format lower field first like NTSC DV format? If not, that can be changed in project properties also. If you right click on a clip and select properties, it will tell you whats up for this in the original PAL DV source clip.
Hang in there, Vegas is worth it.

Craig H.

> Subject: RE: Vegas Video 3 - Transitions & Problems
> on Widrescreen TVs.
> Posted by: SonicEPM
> Date: 12/5/2001 9:20:49 AM

>Ok, I want to repro this exactly, so here's what I am
>doing:

>External monitor is off- I am looking at the Vegas >preview window.

>I have set my brand new, empty project to the PAL DV
>template. (720x576x PAR 1.0926)

>I put a PAL DV clip on the timeline. This clip
>matches the project (720x576x PAR 1.0926)

>I play the clip, all is fine- looks like it is
>supposed to.

>I split the clip, and drag the right clip to
>overlap the left clip, creating a crossfade.

>I double click on the crossfade transition to
>create a loop selection.

>I select tool>selectively prerender video, and
>I am given a prerender video dialog. I select
>PAL DV. It renders the crossfade.

>I play from the timeline, starting at the first
>event, to the end of the second. The crossfade
>has been conformed correctly.

>Question: Are you not seeing this?

Yes.

>Next- I turn on external monitor.

>I check my Preferences>Video device, and I see
>a dropdown list:
>"If project format is invalid for DV output,
>conform to the following:"...and I choose
>"PAL DV".

>I watch the project on my external PAL monitor-
>all is well.

NO - all is not well. At the point that the transition takes place (begins) the TV is placed into into "Movie Expand 16:9" mode from 4:3 - then reverting back to 4:3 mode as soon as the transition ends.

>I add some new events and transitions, select the
>entire program, and preview without prerendering.
>Recompressed areas are conformed correctly-
>to PAL DV.

>Are you not seeing this?

As I said, at this point the problems have already begun.