vegas vs. everything else

masmedia wrote on 10/14/2006, 7:21 PM
seems like theres much discussion about Vegas vs. other NLEs here lately, especially Avid. I work on Avid, Adobe and my fav. Vegas... I have found by using 3 different systems semi regularly, all have their strengths and weaknesses. Vegas and Adobe seem more logical and easier for me for basic editing, while Avid's fx are a little more straightforward (personally, I like simple and easy). I've been trying to do just a simple tumble away with a graphic so it looks like its falling "face first" off screen. Very simple and straightforward in Avid, in Vegas, got some advice here, but still haven't worked it out. Seems like a pokey way of doing something easy... of course, it's what you know and are used to. Maybe I have my paws of too many NLEs... or maybe one needs more than one depending on what the project is...

enough of my venting...

I do love Vegas!
And really like Adobe.
Avid's OK, too...


[r]Evolution wrote on 10/14/2006, 7:49 PM
More guys like you (that use different NLE's) need to chime in on these 'comparative discussions". Seems like everytime a topic like this arises... we get tons of opinions from people that only use VEGAS and No Other NLE. How can they 'Compare' what they know nothing about? Sure, they can pass on what they've heard or read... but what matters is what you know First Hand.

I too use Avid at the Studio, FCP, PremierePro, & VEGAS.

I prefer VEGAS as it seems to:
* Open Any File Type I throw at it.
* Allow me to work in Non 4:3 or 16:9 Aspect Ratios.
* Allows me to send FX to 'Busses'
* Continues to play when I click other buttons.
* Does not conflict with other software on my computer.
* It's intuitive.
* Takes me less 'clicks' to do most tasks.
* Does not make me choose what type of Project I'll be editing.
* Accepts all different File Types & Aspect Ratios on the same timeline.
These are only a few.

Naturally... FCP, Avid, & Premiere also have their strengths.

FCP & Premiere:
* Allow me to send my projects to other Dedicated Software for Titling, FX, Compositing, Graphix, etc... and back again.

* Stores so much Media information that you can find anything, anywhere, anytime.

Personally... I would like to hear from the 'Professionals' or people working in other Studios & Production Companies. I don't care what the 'Consumer' needs. There is Vegas Movie Factory (or whatever it is) for Consumers.

If VEGAS wants to be in the realm of AVID & FCP... it needs to be 'Professional'. By listening to 'Professionals' and taking VEGAS in the direction of the 'Professional' market... VEGAS becomes recognized as the Professional tool it is. If it caters to the 'Consumer'... it will continue to be considered 'Consumer'. -despite what the Splash Screen, Box, & Advertising say.

VEGAS is already at version 7.
How much time is needed to be taken seriously?
Serena wrote on 10/14/2006, 7:52 PM
Sounds good to me. Actually editors should have skills across many NLEs if one is to do contract editing. And then you understand the best tool for a particular task. You know the old saying: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail". I don't think we should be saying any NLE "is the best" and nobody should be supporting Vegas as if it were a football team. Vegas is a nice box of tools and widgets, but it doesn't do everything that one can need.
TLF wrote on 10/15/2006, 12:31 AM
OK, I don't have experience of other pro editing software, but here is my experience...

An acquaintance of mine is a professional editor, so he used Avid when in the studio. At home he uses Premiere.

He has recently acquired the licence to a BBC television comedy that he released on DVD. I am pretty sure he used Premiere to tweak the footage and Encore to create the DVD files and transfer to DLT.

The DVD was pressed by the same plant that Sony uses (sohe claims).

I did show him Vegas, but I don't think he was impressed.

I did try Premiere, but it refused to run on my PC - crashed out every time. And Premiere Elements is quite fiddly. Powerful but fiddly, and the titling is crap!

(As a member of an amateur video and film club, I am amazed that nobody except me used Vegas. Others use Premiere and Pinnacle Studio. I can't understand why as the films they produce are pretty poor most of the time with really very dodgy looking titles. And EVERY film has that awful Adobe branded countdown.)
Pros will stick with pro software; amateurs will tend to go with what they think the Pros use. Independent thinkers will go with what is best for them.

Serena wrote on 10/15/2006, 1:00 AM
It seems that many schools and adult video classes use Adobe Premier for editing (most users don't have Macs), so of course that's what people continue using. Their choice doesn't invalidate your greater intelligence in using Vegas. Adobe hands Premiere out cheaply to educational bodies. If you're interfacing with professionals then the important thing is that you be able to take input and provide output that flows smoothly through all the post-production stages. As discussed previously, some clients judge the editor by the tools on the bench (because that's all they know about -- sort of kicking tyres (tires)) and then it pays to have up signs of Mac and/or Avid. But you don't have to use them; necessarily. And remember, in the past great editing was done with nothing more than a splicer and a viewer. A good editor will achieve a good result with whatever tools.
Lili wrote on 10/15/2006, 10:40 AM
"(As a member of an amateur video and film club, I am amazed that nobody except me used Vegas. Others use Premiere and Pinnacle Studio."

I'm not suprised they don't use it as most people don't know it exists. I was looking for Vegas Movie Studio at Future Shop and Best Buy the other day -- they had the others, but not a single Vegas brand (it wasn't sold out either). This is in Toronto - maybe different in the U.S.A.
riredale wrote on 10/15/2006, 11:29 AM
Sony would be doing itself a HUGE favor by giving away Vegas Studio to educational institutions for free or nearly free. Gotta prime the pump.

Another thing they need to do is to give away a free copy with every Sony camcorder.
[r]Evolution wrote on 10/15/2006, 11:55 AM

That's an awesome idea!
They should also include it with all VAIO's sold.

By including it in these sales... they would be putting their Name & Software in the hands of the end user. Now the purchaser does not have to go out and buy an NLE... they already have one that they will soon see, far surpasses most of their needs. Not only would this create Name Brand Loyalty but it also pairs SONY with SONY. Basically this would 'Saturate' the market and make people take notice.

Adobe does NOT make computers. Avid does NOT make computers. Apple makes computers and you best believe they do NOT advertise or couple their Hardware with anything but 'Appleware'.

SONY should be exactly like Apple! Market ALL of your Hardware & Software as THE SOLUTION!
PossibilityX wrote on 10/15/2006, 11:57 AM
:::Sony would be doing itself a HUGE favor by giving away Vegas Studio to educational institutions for free or nearly free. Gotta prime the pump.

Another thing they need to do is to give away a free copy with every Sony camcorder.::::

Riredale, that's one of the best ideas I've ever heard.

Sony really OUGHT to do that, and then give you 1% of any sales they make as a result of your suggestion, during the first year the program is in place.

Yeah, yeah----I know: Sony software and Sony camcorders are in different divisions, and probably know nothing about the existence of the other. But still.
bevross wrote on 10/15/2006, 3:00 PM
Sony Vaios are being bundled with Adobe Premiere these days! Perhaps their marketers think consumers are more likely to have heard of it & think it's of value.
farss wrote on 10/15/2006, 3:29 PM
He he, don't know if anyone else noticed but there was a brief shot of a Vegas T/L on 60 Minutes last night. Story was about the Sick Puppies and their huge success after tapping into YouTube.
Vegas / VMS could generate huge sales into the YouTube set.
What other tool lets you multitrack a band and produce the music vid?

CVM wrote on 10/15/2006, 6:47 PM
Give Vegas away?... I dunno. I typically don't use the free crap that comes on my computer... I feel it's too 'consumer' (e.g. MS Works, EZ CD Creator, etc.). Maybe give them the lower end Sony Movie Studio. But if we're trying to get Vegas taken seriously, than don't give it away! Could you imagine a new HP Pavilion with Avid Nitris at CompUSA?
Yoyodyne wrote on 10/15/2006, 7:33 PM
Oh riredale is so right! Give Vegas Movie studio away with all their new small $1000 HDV camcorders - people will google Vegas, find out that it may not be industry standard but by all accounts the software kicks ass, install it and get hooked!
MohammeD T wrote on 10/15/2006, 8:29 PM
Well i was in Shock when i saw Adobe Premeire in the all Programs in my 1 month old Vaio, how come does Sony install their Competitor softwares?

VMS+DVD on all Sony Vaio's and Camcorders is a must.

i really thought Vegas was the Best NLE software available, i never thought of how it ranked among others.

I Dont care if Sony prices Vegas at 1000 $$ as long as its gonna get Vegas Editors into good jobs, get the reputation needed to get its users into real Work just like Avid users, just please keep the upgrades at the 150 price range :O)
TheHappyFriar wrote on 10/15/2006, 8:50 PM
sure give it away. that';s how MS holds their ground: give it away to whomever wants to use the competition & sell it for more to people who WANT to buy it, to cover costs.

Even if they just gave away movie studio, that's what 90% of people want/need. Avid gives away a free version & you can get a free version of Acid. Why not other Sony software: Vegas, Sound Forge, etc. And not that "buy the full version!" crap evrey time you push a button, but actuatly 100% working software like Acid. If it can't do it then don't include the option.
Houston Haynes wrote on 10/15/2006, 9:32 PM
Sony would be doing itself a HUGE favor by giving away Vegas Studio to educational institutions for free or nearly free. Gotta prime the pump.

This is EXACTLY what I told the execs while working at Sony Pictures Digital - at a company-wide meeting back in June or July of 2003. Bundling with Vaios was a no-brainer too... see how much of that has happened since that time??

And to tell the truth - I could see the frustration on the faces of the folks that answered my questions back then. They had obviously been hard at work trying to accomplish bundling deals with other Sony divisions for quite some time.

Maybe now that Stringer has been harping on "breaking down the silos" between businesses, perhaps some of that will change.
TLF wrote on 10/16/2006, 12:41 AM
And how about installing a version on Dell PCs? So many people buy Dells (horrid as they are IMHO).

Many of my pupils have Dells - probably about 60% of them. If Sony allowed Dell to install a (trial) version, I'm sure that would boost sales. Corel does it with Paint Shop Pro, McAfee does it, so why not Sony?

In fact, as Sony and Corel have a bundle comprising VMS and PSP, it would make sense...

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/16/2006, 4:28 AM
> This is EXACTLY what I told the execs while working at Sony Pictures Digital

I told them something similar. Not to give away Vegas Movie Studio because that’s too full featured, but rather have a light-weight Express edition. I taught a Video Workshop at one of the local schools last year and used the Sony suite (Vegas Movie Studio, Sound Forge Audio Studio, & ACID Music Studio) because I felt it was affordable for the students to go out and buy. Boy was I wrong. When I taught them ACID and I told them about the free ACID Express they all came in the next week with songs they had created in ACID Express. When I taught them Vegas Movie Studio and told them they had to buy it, they all came in the next week with movies they created in Windows Movie Maker. Then they started asking how do you do this and that in Movie Maker. One even downloaded AVID Free DV and was asking questions.

Sony needs a Vegas Express just like ACID Express and AVID Free DV. With sites like YouTube, kids are looking for a free editor to be creative with. If Sony doesn’t make one, they will use someone else’s. The express version just needs one or two tracks; something you can make a quick video with and establish brand loyalty as they look for more functionality.

farss wrote on 10/16/2006, 5:01 AM
This is kind of a good idea but would it really achieve that much.
On the PC side they've already got WMM and Avoid for free..
On the Mac they've got iMovie, I've been amazed at the amount of stuff done with iMove, even people charging serious money to large corps using just iMovie.
Not saying they shouldn't do it, I just kind of feel it's perhaps too late already. Still it'd be worthwhile having it on the VAIO line. Not having it is really, really dub. Having the oppositions product is wierd, really wierd. Still at least Sony Oz are managing to put Vegas brochures into the boxes of their broadcast products, a discount coupon would have been nicer :)

Just lately I'm getting the feeling that Australia probably has the highest number of Vegas users per head of population, I've had them coming out of the woodwork from everywhere.

GlennChan wrote on 10/16/2006, 4:37 PM
Anyone here tried Pro Tools Free on the PC?

While a free version may seem like a good idea, it can get so bogged down in watering down the product that the free version is simply unuseable. That's what Pro Tools Free is.
JiMBo VISION wrote on 10/17/2006, 7:01 PM
This is a bit late in the topic chain, but I felt I had to reply (excuse my spelling: I am dyslexic)

This is in reference to vegas vs everything else. My final selling point was the color correction filters (see "COLOR CORECTION")

The best software for its money!!! I have been NLE since 1995 on every thing: fast video machine avid volocity flyer media 100 premier4 premer real time premer pro finle cut final cut HD a small time 3 weeks on vegas 5 and now I just bought vegas 7.

The first time I used vegas I was masivley unimpresed. It looked to me like a story board editor for wedding/Bar Mitzvah guys. But, I am not closed minded, so weeks later, after some one let me "borrow" a copy I found it had very good tools. To every one that is familar with the final cut premeir pro interface is turned of by vegas when they look at the docking window and time line. but on futher inspection I found the interface in vegas to be pure GENIUS for


The ADOBEcolor correction filter is atrocious (BAD) it gives it a gamma shift and will start pixelating the footage after a few layers have been set up but the filters in vegas are top notch (sony color correcter secondary) and the power and clarity of the final producit is unmatched. now I can make several layers of color correction with out having to sacrifice the quality of the final out ut