Vegas: where are we going?

Tattoo wrote on 6/30/2007, 1:41 AM
While I enjoy working with Vegas, I am beginning to have my doubts about where we're going. Perhaps it's just a misperception, but it seems that the Vegas "power-users" in this forum have not been as adament in their support of Vegas over the last year or so. Gone are the days of Spot saying "just wait, good things are coming;" now he doesn't even post here much at all (relatively). The only kernal of strength seems to be the ease & speed of basic editing.

Have the glory days passed Vegas by? Is the new release going to do/allow amazing things? Is there ever going to be stronger 3rd party support? Beginning to wonder ...



jwcarney wrote on 6/30/2007, 6:58 AM
This is what happens when Sony takes over a company. Wall of silence. The only way they will change is if we vote with our pocketbooks. I started by not upgrading to SoundForge 9.
I won't be spending any more money on Sony Software until I see Vegas 64 and it meets my needs.

Remember, it's just software. Not a religion.

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:01 AM
Sound Forge 9 is really good though.
PeterWright wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:08 AM
I think it all comes back to whether you are optimistic or pessimistic by nature.

I am optimistic, incurably, and I have never yet been majorly let down by Vegas.

The fact that they have declared that the next version will be 64bit means little to me technically, but in principle it tells me that Sony are moving this wonderful program into the future ................. and I am looking forward to what this actually means...
jwcarney wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:17 AM
I agree, and SoundForge 9 is great. This is about making a statement. Start talking to us, other companies make statements about the future and engage with their userbase.
If Madison Media changes, and comes out with good products, then I vote with my pocketbook by buying Sony software.
I have SoundForge, Acid Pro, Cinescore, DVD Architect. All in support of Vegas. But no more upgrade money until I see if future versions of Vegas will meet my needs. What I have now works fine for the short term anyway.
I'm not pessimistic, or I wouldn't be here at all.
farss wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:48 AM
I've been very optimistic since V4, Acid is the only product I don't use, the rest are all latest release. Overall core reliability has gone seriously downhill.
DVDA 4 has a serious flaw that makes it useless to me, DVDA 3 has a serious flaw that I can get around using 3rd party code to patch DVDA 3 output.
Vegas 7 added some usefull features but has a serious bug that again can render it useless to me.
SF 9 I'm still grappling with.

64 bit offers what?
Oh yeah, 4 stream of HD (8bit?) in realtime. Singularly underwhelmed haveing seen other system do way, way more than that with a 32 bit OS. All it takes is to use the GPU.

I guess I could list all the things, especially on the audio side that have been asked for since V4 but still haven't eventuated but most of the audio guys seem to have left long ago.
Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 8:38 AM
Here's my current assessments:

Vegas 7: Almost there. Works well with Neo. A couple of fatal flaws with m2t (2black frame bug and weak error correction).

DVDA: No HD support. I've pretty much stopped using it.

CD Architect: Absolutely brilliant, but doesn't work with the writer in my laptop :-(

Acid 6: Almost there. Needs track freezing.

Sound Forge 9: Brilliant.

Noise Reduction 2: Brilliant.
farss wrote on 6/30/2007, 8:52 AM
Funny, I forgot CDA, yes the ONE reliable application that I've used for all my mastering. Apart from an issue with CD Text that's of almost zero concern, 100% rock solid.
Odd thing is I got it for free years ago with SF7, other reason it might be so good, it's never been fiddled with.

Ooops, nearly forgot Viscocity, worked OK the brief play I had with it.
eyethoughtso wrote on 6/30/2007, 8:56 AM
IMHO - Are you waiting for evolution? It's very user friendly already. I use Vegas because of the ease of use and speed of getting my projects done. We are making videos on PCs. I've seen other programs (i.e. FCP and Premiere) that take too many steps to do what Vegas does in a click or two.

I like the story of the guy that shows his visuals and the people enjoy it so much they gave credit to his equipment. "Wow you have great cameras and software. Later he goes to dinner at the house of a cook that saw his work. He enjoyed the meal so much pays the same compliment. "Wow!, that was such a great meal. You must have the best pots and pans!"

I go on Youtube every now and then, and see some of the movies that some "artists" are submitting. One person of interest is Happy Slip. Simple, short, and entertaining. Oh yeah, and over a million viewers.

Sometimes a toaster is just a toaster, a refrigerator is just a refrigerator, and NLE software is just NLE software. I use SF9 and Vegas 7 + DVDA seamlessly. The rest is up to you.

Where we going? Hopefully to the bank when we get paid for our creativity. Now get busy and go make us Vegas Users proud and earn some Oscars or Emmys or something.

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 9:12 AM
Wierd. I just tried CD Architect again with my laptop burner and it worked perfectly. I swear it didn't yesterday. Anyway, yeah CD Architect is by far the best CD writing software ever made. Nothing else even comes close.
Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 9:13 AM
As far as Vegas goes, here are my complaints:

1: Two black frame bug. I just hate it.

2: M2T error correction. I get at least one clip per tape that will crash Vegas. The same clips play back fine in WMP and can be converted in Cineform HDLink. It seems to me that the whatever for of m2t error correction Vegas uses should be beefed up a little.

3: I can't drag more than a couple of m2t clips to a Vegas timeline at once. I don't know why, but boy is that a frustration. When I work on a project, the first thing I want to do is drag all the footage to the timeline and start trimming away the junk. As things stand, I have to drag clips to the timeline in small groups of about ten or so at a time. If I try to add more at once, nothing gets added. This is just silly.

4: Selectively prerender video should work with smart-renderable Neo codec clips instead of just with SD DV clips.

bruceo wrote on 6/30/2007, 10:03 AM
I've been using Vegas for over 10 years and couldn't fathom going to another NLE, but I've just about had it. m2t editing with V7 was great until all the other unaddressed bugs that came with it...
Tattoo wrote on 6/30/2007, 3:28 PM
MVP- Let me start by saying that I don't edit for money - only for myself, Vegas has significantly capability than I really need, and I've got tons to learn. Heck, I haven't had time to edit anything in the last six months (working every weekend is getting OLD!). However, I monitor this forum fairly closely (editing vicariously through all of you) and I've sensed a change in the enthusiasm levels. I've been with Vegas since V5 first came out (now V7), and many of the old-craniums (& beta testers) that used to post strongly have faded away. I don't recall serious bugs (the current two black frames issue & whatever is ailing DVDA4) lasting so long. The tech support guys have basically vanished from the forum.

If Vegas is just a toaster NLE, then why even have versions 5/6/7? Other than HDV, it sounds like VV4 was just as good as VV7, if you're looking for a toaster. I love that Vegas is stable (I'm a Pinnacle Studio refugee) and I like that it's quick to edit, and those are two incredibly important items. However, I'd like to see some major improvements in the text department (no, I don't need 3D extruded letters or even chrome text, I just want more control without having to keyframe & eyeball every last detail). Also, I haven't had a reason to use the 3D video space yet, but that is growing in use these days and the methodology Vegas uses seems very difficult.

Like I said, I don't edit for a living, and I don't even get a chance to edit much. I bought into Vegas at V5+DVDA2 so I'd be familiar once I did get more time; I bought for the future (same for Acid & SF). It concerns me, then, to see the "big kahunas" of this Vegas forum seeming to wane in their enthusiasm.

blink3times wrote on 6/30/2007, 4:25 PM
"3: I can't drag more than a couple of m2t clips to a Vegas timeline at once. I don't know why, but boy is that a frustration. When I work on a project, the first thing I want to do is drag all the footage to the timeline and start trimming away the junk. As things stand, I have to drag clips to the timeline in small groups of about ten or so at a time. If I try to add more at once, nothing gets added. This is just silly."


I don't have this problem at all and I work with nothing but M2T... what version are you running?
John_Cline wrote on 6/30/2007, 4:35 PM
Not that I'm a "Big Kahuma" around here, but my enthusiasm for Vegas is NOT waning. I work in it virtually all day, every day and I have no complaints. Vegas has allowed me to make an excellent living doing what I love to do. I have always looked forward to whatever new features the next release brings, 10-bit video would be nice and there is that HDV black frame thing that hit me once, but there is nothing about the current version of Vegas that has me looking to jump ship. To what NLE would I jump?

eyethoughtso wrote on 6/30/2007, 9:03 PM
Tattoo, I learned in life that if you keep the attention on the subject of the subject and not on the object that is making the subject, people will look less intently at short comings that might be there. Woody Allen is a good example of bad cuts in his movies. There have been plenty of times when you outright notice his bad cuts. There is no explaining them in the movie. No one is going to point out "pardon that last bad cut." But after a while you kinda look at it as style of the editor and director.

Vegas is an exceptional tool for doing what it is we do. We are not all putting weeklys on A&E or Discovery, but the fact that we spent a little more on Vegas than the "light versions" tells the rest of us that we are serious about what we are doing with our spare money and time. It would be foolish to spend for a formula one racer on the highways. What we have is QUALITY! People pay for that.
Versions 5 through 7.0e should have been maturation processes for all or us that started back then; not to mention VMS. That's been a few years, to learn along the way, most of the tricks of the trade with this NLE.
If the big boys aren't on the forum as much, maybe its because technology has gotten better and they're answering the same questions they've been answering for the past few years. I know I don't view the forum as much because the big boys have fix most of my problems, and I'm busy with that knowledge editing and shooting. I like to read it because its a warm community. I'm sure they read the dailys frequently.

There are still a lot of improvements, excuse me, "additions" that can be added to Vegas. We are still way ahead of the curve. The majority of people who hire us are not asking for HD in there product. They just want a commercial, a music video, or a wedding, or their kids basketball game memories recorded. When you get down to the core of editing, people look for cuts and fades. Too much of anything else looks like that old Tim Allen series with all of the effects. People don't take the content seriously.

I like John's comment, "To what NLE would I jump?"

A few more thoughts: I am so glad I don't have to do all of those steps involved in Avid or FCP etc. I just want to get my work delivered. Thanks for fixing that DVDA problem with the non-compatability issue. Thanks to ALL of you guys on this forum for fixing my issues so I can get back to work.

farss wrote on 6/30/2007, 9:45 PM
To what NLE would I jump?

Onbviously I can't say to what NLE anyone should jump to and I'm not jumping, I'm being pushed to CS2/3. Will it be any better for what has been my main income earning business for the last 6 years, I seriously doubt it, no I KNOW it will not be. So I'll still be using Vegas and paying for the upgrades to earn most of my income.

Having said that, it's very hard to resist what CS3 has to offer. For around $2,000 you get AE, PS, Illustrator and for a bit more the option to upgrade to the Master Collection which adds Indesign. Apart from being pushed into using PPro and AE, all the others such a PS, Illustrator and Indesign I keep finding myself caught out by not having. Adobe's various formats are the standard in the printing industry and today with DVDs, clients want slicks and booklets.

This is part of a bigger problem, in the past you'd just send the graphics design work out to someone else but now that same someone else also does video and DVD authoring. Even when you do send the work out, you need the same toolset for any last minute changes that the client might want.

eyethoughtso wrote on 6/30/2007, 10:24 PM
Bob, I'm in that same boat with the big problem of Photoshop. It's too vast. The time I waste trying to figure out what I need done in PS I more than makeup in time saved in Vegas. But that PS learning curve slows down the creative process. I sometimes use Digital Juice to quickly do what I can't do in PS. But you're right about it being the standard.

I have friends that swear by the MAC. G5, 32" monitor, FCP suite, external hard drives, Nuendo sound studio, Cubase, and all of the other things in that realm. $8 or 9 grand in hardware and software that sound good at partys, when you namedrop brandnames. They struggle too.

I think we'll all be spending for a few more years on upgrades. If we don't; we'll be the best blacksmiths and telegraph decoders in the 21st century.

Grazie wrote on 6/30/2007, 10:47 PM
If we don't; we'll be the best blacksmiths and telegraph decoders in the 21st century.

Jeff! Hysterical! Just TOO good . . . .

kairosmatt wrote on 7/2/2007, 9:44 AM

3: I can't drag more than a couple of m2t clips to a Vegas timeline at once. I don't know why, but boy is that a frustration. When I work on a project, the first thing I want to do is drag all the footage to the timeline and start trimming away the junk. As things stand, I have to drag clips to the timeline in small groups of about ten or so at a time. If I try to add more at once, nothing gets added. This is just silly.
I also have this problem, I am editing on a two year old Pentium 4. I've found that if you wait a few second, before releasing the mouse button, the clips will show up. For exampe, if I am dragging ten long HDV clips out of the explorer, when I get up to the T/L I just continue to hold the button until they show up. Then I can move them all around and drop them where I like. With ten long clips, it can take up to 15 seconds. It does put a crimp on the flow though.

I don't try more than that though, because I've actually crashed the system doing that!
Cliff Etzel wrote on 7/2/2007, 10:13 AM
For those looking at the idea of CS3, I'll bet you will be unhappy with the amount of resources these applications use. I was doing another round of tests this morning with PPro and Vegas 7 with the same project - I watched PPro utilize 1.3GB of memory on a simple render while only utilizing 60% of the CPU. The same project, same effects rendered in Vegas 7 utilized 365MB memory and 90% CPU utilization. I actually stopped the PPro render as it was still climbing as it continued to render.

The more I work with, test and play with Vegas, the more I realize just how powerful an NLE it truly is. I truly hope that the 64bit version lives up to the hype.

Having full utilization of the amount of RAM and CPU horsepower I hope will really make a difference in rendering times.

I wonder how the VASST plugins (Reelpaks, etc) will work on native 64 Vegas...

Cliff Etzel