Joe's correct.

To add a bit more detail, Vegas uses the velocity envelope to alter the speed of playback of the still, which ends up making no difference at all. Then Pan/Crop uses keyframes that are tied to the event's timeline to change the cropping and pan settings. These keyframes are "attached" to specific times and are unaffected by the velocity envelope.

As Joe points out you should be able to achieve exactly what you want by moving the keyframes instead.

OK, thanks, gentlemen.

Looks like what I'll have to do is stretch the .bmp substantially to give the keyframes plenty of "time" to actually do the slow-down as needed. Then render out, bring back in and tweak one more time.

That said, I would appreciate suggestions on:

--- Which kind of keyframes to use for said "graceful slow-down" and their smoothness -- particularly the middle to end. (I'd just reverse for speed-up).

Thanks

If you want to extend the length of the still I *think* you need to extend the duration of the event in its properties and then extend it on the timeline.
For a smooth transition between keyframes set them to Smooth but try others as well. You may need more than one keyframe to get the trajectory you want.
Rendering it out and using a velocity envelope as said above is not such a good idea. It'll really fall apart if you try to ease into a freeze frame and it's possibly even worse if you then try to ease into a reverse direction. The problem is Vegas is creating tweened frames and there's just too much interpolation going on. I've found it's more than adequate for a quick speed ramp but nota gradual slowdown into a freeze as the eye then has time to see what is going on and motion gets really funky.
If you're determined to use a velocity envelope you could get better results by rendering first at a high frame rate, even more so if you're working in progressive.

Bob.

If you want to extend the length of the still I *think* you need to extend the duration of the event in its properties and then extend it on the timeline.

nope. That's onyl for generated media (I had to double check myself, I thought you did too). Just drag it the length you want. You can even do that while the pan/crop is open & it will auto-adjust the pan/crop timeline.

If you add keyframes and then SHORTEN the event, it will shorten the end of the event in the pan/crop window & start bunching keyframes together.

Thanks, guys.

So I wasn't imagining things with "stutter" using envelope, ha.

As to grab+Ctrl to speed up clip, yup, I learned through experience to watch for keyframe bunching-up. I move the keyframes back before doing that so I don't have to un-stack them (that can be a pain in the butt and mess things up if one has alot of them :)

Speakinng of keyframes, there is an oddity that occurs for me:

--- Vegas crashes (disappears) when I try to copy and paste the very last keyframe in Pan/Crop. It happened in V6 too.

Is this common = a bug?

"Vegas crashes (disappears) when I try to copy and paste the very last keyframe in Pan/Crop. It happened in V6 too."

Not seen that one and I do it quite a lot.

Bob.

I've never seen it crash because of that eigther.

CTRL+dragging won't help a still either. :)

Regarding keyframe Vegas crash... "I've never seen it crash because of that either.

I may have to call Sony about this, because just this afternoon it happened twice -- and I was careful to move the keyframe from the end, then copy. Paste into another event--and ka-boom.

On time-stretch on still... "CTRL+dragging won't help a still either. :)"

Well, if a 5 second still is stretched to 10 seconds that way, it does work just due to the fact that its total event presence is twice as long. In this 5 to 10 sec. example, the pan/crop acts twice as slow, ergo slow-down.

Using Ctrl just saves me from repositioning the keyframes one at a time since the space between them increases proportionally.

Well, if a 5 second still is stretched to 10 seconds that way, it does work just due to the fact that its total event presence is twice as long. In this 5 to 10 sec. example, the pan/crop acts twice as slow, ergo slow-down.

Oh,, you're right! Sweet! Never noticed that before, I just never bothered with a ctrl+drag on a still with keyframes because it's for slowing down, never thought it would stretch out the key frames's in a still! Awesome!

If you are interested, I have a script which checks that there is a keyframe at the exact last frame for every event that has more than one keyframe. I wrote this because when you change the length of an event, the last keyframe will stay at the end of the event if you make the event shorter, but if you make the event longer, the keyframe stays at the same location. However, any keyframe at the beginning of the event stays in the same location, even if you lengthen the event by dragging the left edge of the event further left.

I have never understood this behavior and I consider it a bug. I have written Sony many times about it, but to no avail.

The reason this is important is that any animation you apply to a still, for instance, will suddenly come to a halt, before the event is finished playing, if you adjusted the length, and then forgot to take the second step of moving the last keyframe. I can think of absolutely no situation where you put a keyframe at the very end of the event where you wouldn't want that keyframe to stay at the end of the event.

Here's the script:

/**

 * When placing stills on the video track in Vegas, most users

 * want to animate those stills using keyframes in the pan/crop dialog for 

 * that event. Normally, there should be a keyframe at the beginning

 * and at the end of such an event (there can be additional keyframes

 * in the middle for more complicated moves). Unfortunately, Vegas contains

 * a bug whereby when you change the length of such a still event after

 * you have already added keyframes to the beginning and the end of the

 * event, the keyframe at the start of the event stays at the start (as 

 * it should), but the keyframe at the end of the event does not stay

 * at the end. This results in still picture animations that suddenly 

 * appear to freeze at the end of the event. These are sometimes 

 * difficult to spot, especially if the end of the event overlaps the 

 * next event.

 * 

 * This script looks at each event on all video tracks. 

 * The script looks to see if there is a keyframe at the exact end 

 * of the event. If there is not, the script flags that event by placing 

 * a marker at its start.

 * 

 * Written By: John H. Meyer

 * Date: July 7, 2005

 *

 **/



import System;

import System.IO;

import System.Windows.Forms;

import Sony.Vegas;

var myMarker : Marker;



try {



  //Go through the list of Tracks

  var trackEnum = new Enumerator(Vegas.Project.Tracks);

  while (!trackEnum.atEnd()) {

    var track : Track = Track(trackEnum.item());



    // Only look at video tracks

    if (track.IsVideo()) {     

      //Go through the list of events on this track

      var eventEnum = new Enumerator(track.Events);

      while (!eventEnum.atEnd()) {

        var evnt : TrackEvent = TrackEvent(eventEnum.item());

        evnt.Selected = false;  // De-select events in order to make problem events stand out

        var MyFilePath = evnt.ActiveTake.MediaPath; 

        var extFileName = Path.GetFileName(MyFilePath);

        var baseFileName = Path.GetFileNameWithoutExtension(extFileName); // Media file name for this event

        var EventLength = evnt.Length;

        var videoEvent = VideoEvent(eventEnum.item());

        var keyframes = videoEvent.VideoMotion.Keyframes;

        var cKeyframes = keyframes.Count;



        // Only look at events that have more than one keyframe

        if (cKeyframes > 1 ) {

          var KeyLength = keyframes[cKeyframes-1].Position;

          if (KeyLength < EventLength) {

            evnt.Selected = true; 

            myMarker = new Marker(evnt.Start);

            Vegas.Project.Markers.Add(myMarker);

            myMarker.Label = "*** "+baseFileName;



//            keyframes[cKeyframes-1].Position = EventLength;  // Optional line to actually move last keyframe



          } // End If KeyLength

        }  // End If cKeyframes



        eventEnum.moveNext();



      }  // End While !eventEnum



    } // End if track.IsVideo



  trackEnum.moveNext();



  }  // End While trackEnum



} catch (e) {

    MessageBox.Show(e);

} // End try

Thanks, John.

This doesn't address my crash thing (though, who knows, it may) but I'll certainly use your script. Once I brush the cobwebs off knowing how to make/save and import a Vegas script :o)

I only have a couple and those were installed long time ago.
Foggy brain syndrome.

Crashes can often be caused by third-party plugins. There is a free, popular plugin that used to crash my computer all the time. I don't want to post the name here because the guy has done great work for the Vegas community. However, if you do have any fX or plug-ins installed, that would be my main suspicion.

You didn't post the exact steps needed to make it crash, but I just put two m2t files on the Vegas 7.0d timeline. I added a keyframe to the end of the timeline in the pan/crop dialog for the first event and applied a rotation. I then copied that keyframe, then opened the pan/crop for the second event and went to the end of the event and pasted. No problem. I tried pasting elsewhere, and again, no problem.

I then tried in 8.0c and it worked there as well.

So, what fX have you applied to these events?

Regarding copy/paste keyframe Vegas crash thing:

"So, what fX have you applied to these events?"

Well, nothing third party or even a script.

That said, taking a peek at my Tools/Scripting submenu, looks like I have more stuff than I thought, though I'm sure some are native. I never use any of them except on occasion "SMLuminance":


Looking in the "Script Menu" program folder, the ones that are .js are Export EDL, SetTransition to Luminance and UnSmoothKeyframes. The rest are .cs. (Hmmm... I wonder if "UnSmoothKeyframes" could be the problem.)

As far as the VASST stuff, their folder here contain a shortcut to respective program and a .png file

Under the Extensions submenu in VP8, none.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The scripts don't matter. It is the fX that matter. If you click on the fX button for any video event, you should get the "plug-in chooser." All the Sony fX plug-ins will have a green icon in front of them, and the non-Sony plug-ins will have a yellow icon. It's the non-Sony fX plug-ins that you need to look at.

I don't know if they can cause a problem if they are not applied, but I am 100% certain that a buggy plug-in can crash Vegas because I wrote a support ticket on this about five years ago, and worked with tech support to track down the problem. We verified with certainty that it was the non-Sony plug-in that caused the problem.

Scripts are not loaded until you use them, so unless you have loaded and used a script, I don't think it will cause a problem.

John,

No problem.
To respond to your earlier Q on my exact steps of this issue:

--- If I copy a Position keyframe from Pan/Crop in event A, switch to Pan/Crop of event B, paste into Position there, I get a "An error has occurred during the current operation. An Exception has occurred." pop-up.

--- Error Details are available, but no point posting them here.

--- I hit OK, Vegas vanishes.
_________________

As far as FX, the only one in use in this project that is not Sony is Magic Bullet Movie Looks HD (blue icon). It came with Vegas, though my guess it's a 3rd party LE version.

While not in use currently, FYI on the other blue icon-ed one in FX folder:

- Auto Levels

The only yellow one I have is oddly enough called "Sony Film Effects."
The rest have as you stated, green icons.

Now, to save time, I sometimes save a temporary or permanent chain of FX:

--- I did so this time, and it's usually my standard one of: Color Corrector, Color Curves, Color Balance, Sharpen, though in this case I also added the Magic Bullet one .

None of these look like potential culprits, save maybe Magic Bullet?

Last, as I was finishing this message, I just remembered a few months ago when I last worked on a project that had quite a few tracks, that one FX (can't remember which) would go dead on me = adjusting its parameters would do nothing.

So I'd save, exit Vegas, relaunch, and it was OK.

If/when that happens again, it may just be the one messing with my keyframes in Pan/Crop.
But all still a mystery for now.

All that said, I probably should do as you did: call Sony support.
There is only so much a lay person can do, so to speak.

And/but I certainly appreciate you really trying to help me with this :o)
_________________

PS: I do wish to try the script you generously offered here above:

A) How do I save it (what file extension)?
B) Which Vegas folder does it go in?

Thanks.

- Auto LevelsThe first two are the ones I would uninstall. They should be easy to re-install.

OK, thanks, I'll do that soon.
And/but I still need to know whud to do for the script, though... :o)

And/but I still need to know whud to do for the script, though... :o) I don't think you need to do anything. AFIK, the mere presence of scripts in your script directory shouldn't affect Vegas because it doesn't load them until you use them. So, don't worry about them.

Sorry, John, I should have been clearer: What I meant was how do I save and apply the script you offered me? :o)

Copy the text of the script. Paste it into notepad, then save it as a ".js" file (name it whatever you want) in the Script Menu folder. Then you can find it by going to Tools - Scripting and just picking it from the list.