Very bad performance with powerful workstation!!

aboammar wrote on 3/10/2015, 5:10 PM
Hi..

I just replaced my 4 years old Sony Vaio Z with a new powerful mobile workstation, the HP Zbook 15. I expected a blazing fast performance with Vegas Pro, but I did not get that! Basically, the playback of video clip on the timeline is super smooth, and I get full frame rate even when I set the display quality to Best/Full.

But whenever I add any simple transition between 2 clips, the playback becomes super slow in the transition area!!! The playback frame rate goes from full 25fps to 2fps or less. My old Vaio Z was much faster!!! What is going on?

Here is the main spec of the HP ZBook 15:

CPU: Intel vPro Core i7-4800MQ Quad processor with 6MB cache, and Turbo can over-clock up to 3.7GHz.
RAM: 32GB at 1600MHz of DDR3L
Graphics: Nvidia Quadro K2000M with 2GB of DDR5 GPU memory.
Display: 15.6" FHD Anti-Glare, DreamColor Display.
Main Storage: 1TB SSD Samsung 850 PRO.
Optical: Blu-ray R/RE DVD+/- RW Drive.
OS: Windows 7 64-Bit Professional.

Full details can be found here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1010042-REG/hp_f2p51ut_aba_zb15_i74800mq_16gb_750_32ss_w7_8_15_6.html

Last night, I wasted over 45 minutes waiting for support chat agent, and when my turn came, they said that they do not handle such problems and that I have to contact technical support! I contacted the technical support, and they did not reply until now, and I do not expect them to reply before a week, as from my previous experience, technical support became very bad since the last few years, and in some cases they never reply to you, and just change the case status as solved when it is not!!!

Any way, I was hoping to get some help from this forum.

I appreciate any feedback ..

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

Comments

OldSmoke wrote on 3/10/2015, 6:39 PM
You may think that your system is powerful but I would rather say it is acceptable. A system like this can probably handle AVC up to 1080 60i/30p but 60p will be already a tough task. I would also try and use the HD4600 as your GPU accelerator rather then the K2000 or just leave it off.

To help you better and maybe get more out of your system it would be good to know:
a) you source footage
b) your project (multi cam?, 8bit, 32bit)
c) where are your source files located and where are you rendering to?

There are many things that can slow down even the fastest system.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

aboammar wrote on 3/11/2015, 3:54 PM
Thanks OldSmoke for your feedback ..

Please allow me to disagree with describing my configuration as acceptable!! Although it is not the most powerful portable workstation, it is definitely still one of the most powerful 15.6" workstation laptop in today's standard.

Putting all that aside, and to clear few things; I have been using Vegas for over 18 years now, since it was called Sonic Foundry Vegas Audio. So, I am experienced Vegas Pro user, and I know many things about it ;)

Now back to the main subject, my system has a dedicated nVidia Quadro K2000M, and I can not switch between it and the Intel HD4600. Turning off the Quadro K2000M from Vegas Pro settings did not solve the problem!

Changing the source material format also has no noticeable difference on the playback performance. I even tried two JPG still photos and I still have the same problem!

My project is just a simper one track to test the performance of Vegas Pro. I tried a 30 seconds long MP4 footage, and I tried 2 still images. Project settting is as always set to 32bit. No multicam.

The source materials are as always located in the system SSD drive, and I never even try to render anything .. I am just playing back the one track timeline.

Please note that the same test runs smoothly in my old, and much slower Sony laptop. So obviously, there is a problem with Vegas Pro 13 running in my new Zbook, because everything else runs like a charm on the Zbook 15.

Finally, and to give you a general idea about how fast the Zbook comparing to my Vaio Z; The base score of Windows Experience Index for both are:

Vaio Z: 4.2
Zbook: 7.8

As you can see, the Zbook 15 is superior to the old Vaio Z, yet the latter performs better!!

Any idea why?

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

aboammar wrote on 3/11/2015, 4:00 PM
Ohh, I forgot to mention that the clip sample is 720P .. it is not even full HD!

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

Stringer wrote on 3/11/2015, 4:07 PM
RE: " Please note that the same test runs smoothly in my old, and much slower Sony laptop. So obviously, there is a problem with Vegas Pro 13 running in my new Zbook, because everything else runs like a charm on the Zbook 15."


Vegas works fine on an older slower machine, so the problem must be with Vegas?

Do you see what you said there?

A good start might be to look at your resource monitor and see what else is running during playback..



relaxvideo wrote on 3/11/2015, 4:09 PM
try turning gpu acc. off
OldSmoke wrote on 3/11/2015, 4:24 PM
The windows index is absolutely useless and doesn't tell you anything about video editing performance. Aside from that, the issue is probably the 32bit project setting. Why are you using it instead of 8bit? Are you doing any green screening and is your source 422 or 444?

Switch to 8bit and things will be smoother, disable resample and you gain even more.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

aboammar wrote on 3/12/2015, 12:56 PM
Thanks Stringer .. I will check that.

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

aboammar wrote on 3/12/2015, 12:57 PM
Thanks relaxvideo .. I already tried that and it did not help!

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

aboammar wrote on 3/12/2015, 1:06 PM
Thanks OldSmoke .. I have always used 32 bit in the project settings, and I never recall that I faced any performance problems in my older workstations! Anyway, and for testing purpose, I switched to 8 bit, and it did not help either! The footage clip is 4:2:0.

Please note that even using still JPG images dose have the same problem with playback on tha area with translation applied, so it is very clear that the problem is not related to using 32 bit, or to the color sampling of the clip!! It must be something else!!!

Any idea?

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

OS 613.0 wrote on 3/12/2015, 2:23 PM
Normal. the program only uses one processor and your's is fast enough for the vid you gave it.. maybe the card is not. I have a 10 core workstation Xeon, with the 4200 quadro running uhd vid, and titler pro works better than on my Vaio I-7 which, kinda doesn't work. at 1080 ,, If I try to render hitfilm 3 clips, it plays one thing on the timeline and renders something else. Sony marketing is professional, and I'm sure that the rep said sorry. I'm sure they will be willing to tell you to try Vegas Pro 14, at your own expense. It is nice they put the high profile mp4 codec back in. Now Avid is not cheaper. don't try the avid free trial. It takes the same time to render with the 4200 as with the processor I find.
OS 613.0 wrote on 3/12/2015, 2:34 PM
for quality you do need the 32bit level.. I run 10bit, 4:2:2 but the computer should run fine for what your doing, since the program only uses one of your cores. stuff in the background should be on another core. I have been asking the same question for months but I keep getting an answer about something else. TV division is the same. The reps want to be helpful but I don't think they have any info or a way to get any info that is not on line. Vaio has been 'getting back to me ' for over 5 years....the tv divisions answer is "for your viewing pleasure" when you ask about a control, or starts reading off the internet...Can anybody get hitfilm 3 to render the timeline correct?
jwcarney wrote on 3/15/2015, 8:00 PM
have you changed ram preview settings? Also, sometimes an SDD can actually be slower than a traditional HD for storing compressed video. If you can, hook up an external HD to your USB3 port and set that as destination for rendering output.
aboammar wrote on 3/16/2015, 7:19 AM
Thanks OS 613.0 for your reply.

But to be honest with you, I really did not understand your reply, and what you want to say!!!!

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

aboammar wrote on 3/16/2015, 7:37 AM
Hi jwcarney,

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, I did changed the RAM preview setting, and it did not help!

I am using the fastest SSD on the market, how is it possible that sometimes an SDD can actually be slower than a traditional HD? Can you explain?

Also, and as expected; it has been 7 days, and Sony support did NOT even bother to reply to my support case!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sony support is getting worse and worse every single day!! I am sure, and at this rate, people will stop using Vegas and move to another NLE, and Sony may get out of business!!

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

Jumping Rascal wrote on 3/16/2015, 10:48 AM
Have you installed the latest Nvidia Quadro K2000M driver?
May be: http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-notebook-win8-win7-64bit-311.50-whql-driver.html

Also, you might try reinstalling the Vegas software....only a suggestion but I have found that this works sometimes to fix up problems that are hard to pin down especially if other related software is also installed such as the Vegas Suite. Good luck on this!
rmack350 wrote on 3/16/2015, 10:49 AM
SCS tech support is useless as far as I know. You might get an unhelpful response in 4-6 weeks. You could try the paid support but I've never seen any indication that it's any better than the free support. Certainly SCS never pushes it.

Initially you say you get good playback until you hit a transition. This indicates that you're getting poor rendering performance to RAM, which shouldn't be a hard drive problem.

The first thing I'd be looking at is project settings and preview window settings. Most likely there's a default setting in place that's not in place on your older machine. Maybe a deinterlace mode, maybe a preview setting like scaling to fit the preview window.

Maybe some things to test might be rendering the transition to RAM compared to rendering it to disk. How long does it take to do these?

As far as SSD being a bottleneck? You'd think it'd be plenty fast enough but it IS the only drive in your system so it's conceivable that it's got too many write operations happening at once. Seems unlikely though. Sometimes a very high RAM Preview setting will force the OS to write other things to it's page file. That also sounds unlikely given how much RAM you have installed, but you could monitor it to see if the page file is growing, just to eliminate that possibility.

There are also some codecs that seem to work poorly at 25FPS or at 32bit color settings. I doubt that the software environment of these two PCs is identical so maybe there's something different between the two.

Rob
OldSmoke wrote on 3/16/2015, 11:06 AM
Just a thought: Check your BIOS if CPU hyper threading is enabled.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Stringer wrote on 3/16/2015, 2:30 PM
I still don't understand why the Op thinks this is a Sony Vegas problem, when they say up front that the older, slower machine works fine..

The problem started with a new machine.. There is a clue in there somewhere.

I realize this is not helpful, but waiting for Sony to respond is not going to get you anywhere..

Have you looked at the process manager to see what all is running in the background?

Did this laptop come with a lot of crapware installed?

drdancm wrote on 3/16/2015, 3:17 PM
Stringer,

"I still don't understand why the Op thinks this is a Sony Vegas problem, when they say up front that the older, slower machine works fine.."

Because there is a hardware incompatibility with the newer more powerful computer!

Dan
drdancm wrote on 3/16/2015, 3:25 PM
I think many of the responses to your problems are not very helpful. Clearly there is a hardware compatibility issue at work and the problem is to narrow it down as much as possible.

I have self built AMD system which works well with 128Gb SSD for Win 7 and all programs and separate magnetic HD for data, and for my video project I'm using a 1TB USB RAID1 drive. The speed is good.

However, whenever I ask for GPU acceleration, with a Radeon video card, rendering almost always fails depending on rendering choice of the very same file. Clearly this is an instance of Vegas Pro 13 incompatibiity with the GPU hardware that is claimed to be fully supported. Worse yet, the program claims CUDA availablity when there is no CUDA compatible hardware in my computer.

One thing that I would suggest you do, even if it does not solve your speed problem, is to have a separate HD for your data, even though with most laptops, it will have to have an external connection.

Dan
Stringer wrote on 3/16/2015, 7:48 PM
" Because there is a hardware incompatibility with the newer more powerful computer! "



What do you think Sony can do about that?
aboammar wrote on 3/17/2015, 5:26 PM
Finally, the problem is solved, and Vegas Pro now working as it supposed to :)

Don't ask me how I solved it because what I did, it dose not fully make sense to me! I just installed Avid DNxHD Codec 2.5!! How is that related, I am not really sure!

Anyway, many thanks for everyone who tried to help .. I really appreciate your effort ;)

And as for SCS Support; Thanks for nothing ): You really proved that you are totally useless and ignorant!

I have been a loyal user since the early days of Sonic Foundry, and for almost all products (Acid, Vegas, Sound Forge, DVD Architect, CD Architect, Cinescore, etc) and I upgraded to every new version, though many upgrades did not worth it .. But no more, I will not upgrade anymore, and I will start looking for alternatives because SCS is going to go out of business, and I will not wait until this happen! I am really that fed-up from SCS.

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 5

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2020 / Xara Designer Pro X365

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2020 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Camera: Sony A7S II / A7 III

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse