Video for multiple languages.

farss wrote on 4/7/2004, 2:37 PM
Will soon be working on a video for DVD that needs to go out in mulitple languages, I'm saying many prayers for what DVDA Ver 2 has to offer but that's another issue.
Big question is how to take what I produce back to tape so it can be reloaded later, say to add a new language or make changes.
The audio side of it I think I've got under control, there's very little lip sync stuff, mostly narration so timimng of the dialogue tracks isn't critical. I figure I can PTT just the video and music and render out each dialogue track as .WAV files and copy these to CD/DVD. Short pips at the start of each should enable them to be synced back on any system, question here though, is there an industry standard way of doing this?
Other option for audio tracks would be DAT with TC but those machines are way too expensive.
But here comes the tricky part. A lot of the information in these videos is in supers. Now I can create video tracks in Vegas, one for each language, very simple and neat, just turn on appropriate track and render out. Except how can I get this in a reusable way back to tape? I can render each track out as uncompressed AVI (to preserve the transparency) but firstly they'll be HUGE files so I will not be able to put them onto CD/DVD.
Is there ANY tape system that'll preserve transparency and if so can I go out to it from Vegas? I think some DigiBetacam systems have a second SDI input for alpha data, even if I could get my hands on one of these how does the alpha data go out to it?

I've already considered the obvious solution, record the super tracks with blue backgrounds as DV25 and then CK them out when they're reloaded. This should work OK but sounds a little clunky (and means NO blue text) so I'm hoping there's a better way or at least to learn how the big end of town handles this scenario.

Comments

ScottW wrote on 4/7/2004, 3:25 PM
Why tape? Why not simply archive everything to a hard drive? Pick up an external firewire or eSata drive enclosure, pick a drive size that will hold the project and dump everything to the drive. Then remove the drive and store it away until you need it again.
Cheno wrote on 4/7/2004, 3:40 PM
I agree with ScottW - of course it depends on your investement into your project but with hard drive space so cheap nowadays, it's almost silly not to just archive to a drive. ADS Datatanks make it easy to swap out drives without having to open up the 'puter.

Every large project I do that may need reworking, I buy a drive specifically for. Then I just add that as an archival cost into the production costs. Usually the cost of the drive and then a handling fee.

Mike
farss wrote on 4/7/2004, 7:40 PM
Hard drives are the obvious solution.
However what if the client wants to take it to another system?
MUTTLEY wrote on 4/7/2004, 10:09 PM
Than two hard drives ? =)

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com
kentwolf wrote on 4/7/2004, 10:22 PM
>>...However what if the client wants to take it to another system?

*Removeable* hard drive mounting "drawers" are very nice for this. They use regular (mounted) hard drives, but the mounting essentially comes out from the front of the PC via a drive bay mounting mechanism.

I use them and they're terrific.
farss wrote on 4/8/2004, 5:56 AM
Guys,
I too have drives in removable draws and yes they're a wonderful idea. Except the idead kind off fallsover when you want to give them to a client so he can possibly take them to someone with a different system.
Firewire enclosures are somewhat more universal, you only need a firewire port on a computer to use them but even then there's several ways to come to grief. Anyone ever been handed the video source for a project from say a FCP system? Well PCs cannot read HFS volumes and Macs cannot read NTFS columes either. And anyone worked out how to load files from a hard drive into an online Avid system?
That's why, as crude as it might seem in this day and age, that tape is still king. You can take a SP, DVCPRO50 or SX tape to any system and so long as they've got a VCR they can access it, even if they don't have a suitable VCR I'd bet a nickel to a pound they'll find somewhere to hire one from in 30 minutes.
So please guys understand, I'm not trying to archive the material for just me or another Vegas user or another PC based system or even any other NLE. I'm after a solution within the industry standards.
So far the best advice I've been given is to output the supers on black to DV25 (low cost) and then they can be luminance keyed by any system to restore the transpareny. Using a luminance key avoids the problem of chroma keys with DV compression BTW.
DV25 (MiniDV) tapes can be read by just about ANY system.
PeterWright wrote on 4/8/2004, 10:38 PM
If you want to archive your supers for possible re-editing, just save the veg file.

You can output from there to any format that might be needed at a later time.
farss wrote on 4/9/2004, 4:25 AM
Peter,
well for sure I could do that, the question really is what format could I output that could be loaded onto say an online Avid or whatever and it'd keep the transparency.
The issue I'm staring to face doing several large jobs for several clients is trying to get closure on the project. For sure I can keep HDDs with all their stuff on it and I'm working in that direction but that still leaves the responsibility for their stuff with me. I really like the idea at the end of a job giving everything back to the client and the client pays me for what I've done. If he wants me to fo more work and I've still got all his old stuff on disks then great. But if he decides to take it elsewhere I'd like for the client to have it some format that can be used as universally as possible.
I know that doesn't sound like good business practice but I do believe in trying to maintain some form of integrity, after all I could be the guy handed someones else work. Well in fact that's exactly what's happened.

Client geve me all the tapes from the last guy on SP to make DVDs out of and make some minore changes on the way. No problem, although some of the supers kind of got in the way and to make matters harder the supers remain during transitions.
So now the client wants the material translated, that part's easy, the SP tapes had music on one track and narration on the other so the narration is easy but because the supers also have to be translated I've got to rebuild the entire project. Fortunately the client found the original camera tapes butthis isn't going to be a simple task. I'll have to log around 20 hours of material just for starters and then match that to the finished videos. Not exactly the stuff to get the creative juices flowing let me tell you. And then I've got to explain to the client why this is going to cost big time, and that's before we start on the translation.

Now when I finish this I'd like to ensure me or the next guy doesn't face the same nightmare. I guess I'm starting to realise why Avid still rules the roost for serious video ediitng. From the little I know if the original job had been done on an Avid and I had the same system and the OMF files I could just load the whole thing in and re-edit it easily. I suspect also DVCAM would have been a better format than DV for this kind of work as it does handle TC reliably.

Bob

PeterWright wrote on 4/9/2004, 4:58 AM
Yeah - I see you're in a difficult spot Bob. If you don't need the supers in a linear/timed format, you could save them on a CD as graphics in an alpha-preserving format like .png. Avid should be able to handle that!

Makes me glad that I inhabit a different part of the market. I have every camera tape and edit master I've ever produced, and my clients rely on me to be able to access their stuff.


farss wrote on 4/9/2004, 5:47 AM
Ah, Peter to be so lucky. What's worse is video is only one of the things I dabble in to make a living, at least software is a bit easier to backup.
Bob.