Video Insert and A/B rolls help!

aspenv wrote on 9/28/2003, 12:10 PM
Hi there, I've been working with avid and now I'm switching to vegas. I have read the manual and read many posts, but I haven't found any info on three issues:

1) Can I work in a single layer, as in Avid? Anytime a cut something in goes to the B roll layer. Is that they way vegas works?

2) when I insert a clip in the middle of an event, not before or after, I would like basically the same action as to cut in the insert position and then move everything else forward in the timeline, but with vegas the clip only rests there overlapping the other track. Is there a setting that would make vegas work like that?

3)what's the difference of overlapped layers, and using different video tracks?

thanks!

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 9/28/2003, 12:31 PM
I would like basically the same action as to cut in the insert position and then move everything else forward in the timeline, but with vegas the clip only rests there overlapping the other track. Is there a setting that would make vegas work like that?

It's easy. You turn on ripple edits. You can either affect just the events on the tracks where you've inserted, or you can have all subsequent events on all tracks move.

Someone else will have to answer your first question. I don't know the answer.
r56 wrote on 9/28/2003, 1:07 PM
You are working in A/B roll mode, click on the "Expand Track Layers" icon button and both layers (and any transitions applied) will collapse in a single layer in your track.
aspenv wrote on 9/28/2003, 1:29 PM
thanks for your comments, but how do I select wether it affects an event or not? I have been selecting the ripple options for affected tracks, affected tracks bus tracks, markers and regions, and all tracks makers and regions, but it does not make any difference, well it does when inserting between 2 events, but not in the middle of one. When I put a clip inside an event it always overlaps no matter what setting I have chosen for the ripple effect. On the other hand, if there is an option, as you say, to affect the events, could you tell me where to find it? thanks again!
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/28/2003, 2:17 PM
I think you need to split the event on the timeline first (with the ‘S’ key) before you drop the new event. Otherwise it will overlap by default.

~jr
aspenv wrote on 9/28/2003, 3:33 PM
cool, thanks, that is what I was refering to. I figured that I had to go that way, spliting the event before inserting anything. I think I'm going to miss the more convenient way of doing that in avid, although I'm really liking vegas.
filmy wrote on 9/28/2003, 3:35 PM
VV has some quirks if you are used to other NLE's. There isn't really an "insert" mode in the sense you, or I, are used to. First you would need to find the spot you wanted to insert into and split that event. To do this you just place the cursor at the frame you want the split to happen at and hit the "s" key - make sure the event you want to spit in highlighted! Now drop that new video into that spot with the ripple edit turned on - and make sure you have the "all events blah blah blah" selected.

A few things that I have mentioned in other posts here - if you have other audio and video tracks above and/or below where you are doing the insert you need to make sure they are all split at the same spot or else everything in one piece will shift/ripple thus throwing your sync out if you're not careful. Also audio wise there is an insert function - for punching in audio at a spot. There is not one for video - my suggestion had been to add something like you would find on video edit systems or other NLE systems - "switches" for Video, A1, A2 and so on. That way you could select an in a point (And an out pint if you so desired) and click on "Video" only or "V, A1, A2" for video and stereo audio and just *poof* there it is. right now, to me anyway, it feels like you have to do a lot of checks and re-checks when you add anyhting to the timeline, inserted or not.

You are correct in the fact that when you place and edit onto the timeline it will "overlap" whatever is on the track. I kind of find this really really annoying. In my case I find that when I want to simply place an edit or new scene after the last frame of the existing one I have to zoom in all the way because either I will get 1> overlap 2> black frame and 3> (if you have the auto transition turned on) the default transition. Several other people have had the "black frame" problem. The other issues don't seem to really bother people.

My other problem with the overalp is sometimes I want that to go on an individual video track and while the video portion might be ok the audio portion becomes an overlap. Or sometimes vice versa. Grrrrr. :)

aspenv wrote on 9/28/2003, 4:32 PM
Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I'm really liking vegas, but the overlapping issue confuses me a lot!
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/28/2003, 5:19 PM
> My other problem with the overalp is sometimes I want that to go on an individual video track and while the video portion might be ok the audio portion becomes an overlap

I don’t know if you know this but if you right-click and drag your video onto the timeline, it gives you the option to just drop the video or audio and to do so Across Tracks, Across Time, or As a Take. I don’t know if this would help. In fact, what they should do is add a 4th option “As an Insert” and that would do what you want. You might want to make this recommendation on the Product Suggestion page.

~jr
GaryKleiner wrote on 9/28/2003, 5:32 PM
aspenv.

You just need to change your paradigm a little.
If you want to insert footage, use another track above your footage. Playback will switch to the topmost event , then when that ends, it switches back to the next layer down. There is no need to mess with the existing video.

Gary Kleiner
filmy wrote on 9/28/2003, 7:08 PM
>>>I don’t know if you know this but if you right-click and drag your video onto the timeline, it gives you the option to just drop the video or audio and to do so Across Tracks, Across Time, or As a Take. <<<

Yeah I am. Nifty little hidden feature but it just isn't the same. Plus there is terminology. VV is different on an editing level. Overall while editing you can insert video, audio or both. One shouldn't have to first right-click on a clip than drag than drop than choose either audio or video than choose from even more options. Just one example with Premiere: you have, say, one audio and one video track. You can lock off the audio track and just drag the clip onto the timeline. Only the video will be placed on the timeline, on the track where you want it to go. In a way a very simple no brainer. With VV you can not do the same thing - first you can't lock off the tracks in the same way and if you do "lock" off an event VV thinks for you and just adds another audio or video track for your new event to go on. As pointed out - if you want "only" audio of video you go through the process described above and you are presented with "Across Tracks, Across Time, or As a Take" as final options. "Bah humbug" says I.
aspenv wrote on 9/28/2003, 9:55 PM
I have just found a vegas ad on that, apparently, takes care of that split where the cursor is when dragging clips into an event.
http://thetroxels.com/tsunami/
mark30 wrote on 9/30/2003, 2:25 PM
"...Just one example with Premiere: you have, say, one audio and one video track. You can lock off the audio track and just drag the clip onto the timeline. Only the video will be placed on the timeline, on the treack where you want it to go. In a way a very simple no brainer. With VV you can not do the same thing - first you can't lock off the tracks in the same wayamd if you do "lock" off an event VV thinks for you and just adds anothet audio or video track for your new event to go on.... "

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but if I think it is:

If you make a selection in the trimmer window (selecting both audio AND video) you can just hit the TAB key to choose 'only video', only audio, or both. If you select only video you can just drag it to a track you want??

gr
Mark




filmy wrote on 9/30/2003, 8:23 PM
>>>'m not sure if I understand what you mean<<<

In Premiere there are little "lock" icons. You click on it to lock that track. In my example, which is only one way to do this, you pick one track and "lock" it. That means you can do whatever you want and that track will remain unchanged. Thusly - if you have a priject with only one video track and one audio track and you wanted to "insert" audio only you could "lock" the audio track and than just drag the clip you wanted onto the timeline sans audio.

Now premiere is also set up like a video edit - source and record so another way is the same way you would do it with video edits. Select the ins and outs on the Source side and select the in on the record side and make the edit. Currently with VV you can't 1> "lock" off a track. You can lock events however VV will auto add audio and video tracks as needed...or at least as VV thinks they are needed and 2> you don't really have source and record decks as it were. You can open a clip in the trimmer window and add regions but you can't go to the 'record' side and add in points. VV is really more of a drag and drop NLE - you drag any clip you want onto the timeline. You don't have the same options - again 1> Select in point on record side 2> Select what you are putting at that in point - audio or video or both.

mark30 wrote on 10/1/2003, 3:15 AM
..."and you wanted to "insert" audio only you could "lock" the audio track and than just drag the clip you wanted onto the timeline sans audio."

I hope you mean inserting 'video' only here, otherwise I am really confused now ;)

But... you may be right about this, althoug if you put the cursor on the timeline where you want an insert made (in - point) then you could select a new clip in trimmer and choose 'insert clip before cursor' of 'insert clip after cursor'?
That way this would be possible:
"You don't have the same options - again 1> Select in point on record side 2> Select what you are putting at that in point - audio or video or both. "

mark

If I don't seem to understand it please tell me I'll shut up.. I just don't get the feeling VV ever thinks for me..

grtz
filmy wrote on 10/1/2003, 9:56 AM
I wish I could use pictures here. :)

You sort of have the idea. I take it you never have edited anything on tape. This is where a lot of the concepts for NLE editing comes from. VV tossed out a lot of them and did something new...but also SoFo seemed to me to be more of an audio software company. Vegas started off life as an audio app, not a video one. I have been told that SoFo had been working on a video app as well and they just put that inside of Vegas Audio and came up with Vegas Video. (I am being very overimple here, but that is the gist of it)

So audio and video and two different things in how they are handled. I think VV is great as a mixer, the fact you can edit video is sort of like an added bonus. But now, as evidenced by this forum, VV is being used to edit video by many people who may not be using it to mix audio. More people are making a move to something that is touted as 'easy to use' so now you get people who are having basic editing needs not being met. Insert editing is a very basic editing need. For those people who have edited before there will be a learning curve because VV does not follow the norm.

So back onto the topic - There are times when I like to mark my record side and have my insert placed into that section as an edit, not an overlap. If I want an overlap of audio I want it on another track and I want to put it there. Same for video. I am trying to keep the example as simple as I can so try this - create a new project with nothing...no tracks at all. Now take any clip and just drag it onto the timelime. Do you get an error message saying there are no tracks? No. VV "thinks" for you and creates the needed tracks. Ok, so now you have one audio and one video track. Now take another clip and drag it onto the timeline. First just drop it onto the same track - do you get any sort of warning about overlapping? Do you get any warning about anything? No - it just puts the audio and video over the existing tracks. Next - same thing but drag it above the exisitng video track and drop it - do you get any warning about no video track there? No - VV "thinks" for you again and creates the track.

Now this is good on your basic no brainer level. However in the concept of insert editing or what not maybe I don't wan't to place the video on the same track and have it overlap. Maybe I "always" want it to go on a new track. Right now that isn't an option. Maybe I want to "insert" video but overlap audio on another track- right now that isn't an option. So, again trying to be as basic and simple as I can - imagine the timeline as is except the video tracks now have little "record" buttons like the audio tracks have. But instead of these being "punch in" buttons they are "insert" buttons. You would also have these buttons on the audio tracks as well. So, for example, you want to put video on 'video track 2' and audio on 'audio track 4' - you would click on the "insert" buttons on 'video track 2' and 'audio track 4'. Now you don't have to worry about any other right-alt-del-esc-ctrl, drag, choose options, tab and select another sub menu and drop routine. As for an "in point" you could just place the cursor and hit F3 or F9 until you get the exact frame and mark it as an "in point." No having to select "all" or "this track only" or hitting "s" to split the tracks and so on.

As an editor something like this would make my workflow go much easier. I deal with VV the way it is but it slows me down more times than not on a long form project.