Set your project and render to 30fps instead of 24 and 25.

if i recorded in 60fps i thought editing and rendering in 23-25 fps would be fine? i recorded in 60fps and then in vegas worked on a 24fps timeline . Im rendering in 25fps.

No, only even multiples are fine.

my premise was that i want my videos to be cinematic. does this mean i should be recording everything at source in 24fps?

I question the premise of 24fps making videos cinematic (intentionality in using the language of cinema to create meaning is more important) but that aside, if you want the final video to be 23.976 fps shoot the source video at the same framerate. You can use 60fps, etc. but only for slow motion and right click the media to "add at project framerate". Also, 25fps is for PAL regions, not cinema, whereas 60 is NTSC.

Or shoot 30fps for normal and 60fps slow motion (or drop every other frame to use at normal speed if need-be) and you can use it in both ways when you render to 30fps.

Thank you so much for the feedback. At this stage you are right it's more important to get a smoothly watchable video than obsess over 24fps. I will try setting my project setting to 30fps and render in the same. If I have to do 60fps (as this is what I recorded in my cameras) I will do that. But at 60fps i get vertical lines when theres movement in my footage in the Vegas previews. For now my focus is on a final video that is smooth regardless of frame rate.

A seperate thread for which frame rate to record with cameras is needed for me to understand this. For example if I record interviews or talking at 24fps and then gopro pov footage in 60fps can I mix these in vegas editing ? Is there just one frame rate I should use for all?

@ali-mufti @RogerS Hi, I film in 60fps mainly because i get a smother motion when panning the camera around, but I edit at 30fps because Vegas works better at that lower frame rate,

I might be wrong & I'd be interested to know - When the frame rate gets reduced frames have to discarded, so going from 60 to 30 it's just throwing away ever other one because 30 divides into 60 equally, but in your example filming at 60 then editing at 24 is uneven, 60 ÷ 24 = 2.5, so is it throwing away ever other one & then having to decide what to do with the remaining 0.5?, or is it throwing away every other 1.25 ? 🥴😂

For 60 to 30 it will work perfectly as VEGAS will just throw out every other frame. While you can post as 60fps this is moving far away from a film look and the overly smooth motion stands out to me.

For panning try to limit the speed of pans- there are actually online calculators for this at a given framerate. With 24, 25 or even 30 there's only so far you can go without it looking jittery.

Regarding the question of mixing framerates... try not to. If your target framerate is 24 I'd go for that and use high framerates for slow motion only. If with a drone you want to do speed ramps, etc. I think 30/60 is a nice compromise (shoot the interview at 30) and render at 30fps.

No it doesn't throw away half frames- it would display several frames, drop one, display more, etc. but in a potentially uneven pattern that will look jarring with motion "judder."

For questions on what works best (and worst!) this video should answer your questions:

Thank you this is very useful. Jittery is the right word. At 23.9/24/25 i get jittery movement. With so much effort gone into different cameras and lenses and then filming when one gets to editing and rendering its most distressing that the look of the final video remains jittery especially on faster movement. I has been causing me sleepless nights.

I will return to editing after the weekend and revert with my results. Thank you everyone for so much useful information.

Glad it was helpful and let us know how it goes : )

When you get a chance check out the video- 15 minutes there may save you countless hours of experiments or failures.

if i recorded in 60fps i thought editing and rendering in 23-25 fps would be fine? i recorded in 60fps and then in vegas worked on a 24fps timeline . Im rendering in 25fps.

For anything other than a common integer factor of the original frame rate, you need Optical Flow Resampling, which is a feature of Vegas Pro 20. There is a free trial.

Optical flow is nice (but it's terrible slow in Vegas and do not expect miracles) for adding frames but not for throwing away frames. In that case it looks like normal resampling, which is blending frames.

Guys thank you so much. I endedup using 30fps and this gave a decent video and saved my project.

This leads me to my next question going forward on new projects . Should i now be shooting at 50fps on my cameras? (as mentioned above my setups are canon m50, gopro9 and panasonic hxv900). If i want to use a 24.99etc or 24 (film) timeline in my next project ?

Will the jitteryness in my panning shots be eliminated and will i be able to get closer to that classic cinematic look?

cheers

Ali

If you want 24p, you should film in 24p. When filming in 24p, shuttertime becomes very important to get natural motion blur, the so called 180 degree rule. If not obeying this rule 24p will still not look cinematic and panning still jittery. To obey the 180 degree rule you need also ND filters on your cameras while filming in bright situations.

My advice, forget about 24p. Stay with 30 or better 50 or 60p and you have natural motion in every situation.

Right now im using 60fps and on vegas a 30fps timeline which is working okay. it allows me to slow video down with the stretch functionas well. By this logic wont shooting in 50fps do the same when editing in a 25/24 timeline?

50 and 25, yes for PAL land. You can use it for slow or normal motion.

24fps, just slow motion.

Did you watch the video I linked to?

Not obeying shutter speed rule will also result in jittery movements when changing framerate from 50/25 or less when changing from 60/30.

Avoid quick movements/panning.

Forget about 24p stands for cinematic look.also other factors as bokeh, shutter speed, composition, aspect ratio, sensor size etc are also important to create a cinematic look.

shooting 50fps will not smoothly translate to 24fps, as it doesn't evenly divide. You will need optical flow (which isn't slow, I use it all the time) which is a VEGAS 20 feature. If you do not live in europe, shooting at 50fps isn't advisable. You want 60 or 30 if you are in the USA/Japan. Only go from a higher rate to 24p if you want to do slow motion, and you'll get better results still if you use optical flow in VEGAS 20.

You will need optical flow (which isn't slow, I use it all the time) which is a VEGAS 20 feature.

I should have said in my earlier comment that Vegas's optical flow is terrible slow compared to Davinci Resolve's optical flow. Optical flow is a nice feature to add/generate additional frames, I used it frequently to change 25fps recordings into 50fps (which went much faster with Davinci). To me it would make no sense to use optical flow to go visa versa to make 25 fps out of 50fps, which normally gives good results by just removing every second frame (no resampling). When using optical flow for this purpose, a complete new frame is created out of two existing frames, which result looks the same (to me) as blending (mixing) two frames, which mostly results in ghosting images. Most people don't like this ghosting result and therefor prefer no resampling, which has become now default resampling setting in Vegas.

@ali-mufti all these tricks will not make a 50fps recording look more cinematic by changing framerate to 24/25 fps.

Im using vegas 14 presently. I think a solution based on using 60fps and editing in 30fps will be the way to go for me gonig forward. As an amateur (very amateur cinematographer) as suggested above there are other factors which can lead to a more professional cinematic look which i should look into as well. For now the main thing I am looking to determine is which fps to shoot in with my cameras that allow me flexibilty in edit later on. I am in a pal region as far as I know. My videos are usually put onto youtube and played on smart tvs directly via hardrive in MP$ format.

Im using vegas 14 presently. I think a solution based on using 60fps and editing in 30fps will be the way to go for me gonig forward. As an amateur (very amateur cinematographer) as suggested above there are other factors which can lead to a more professional cinematic look which i should look into as well. For now the main thing I am looking to determine is which fps to shoot in with my cameras that allow me flexibilty in edit later on. I am in a pal region as far as I know. My videos are usually put onto youtube and played on smart tvs directly via hardrive in MP$ format.

Than forget about the optical flow story, optical flow was added in VPro20.

For youtube/smart TV purposes it doesn't really matter 60/30 or 50/25fps. Just remember that higher framerates give a more fluent impression. Also when living in a PAL region you can use 60/30 fps. I also live in a PAL region, but I personally prefer to use 50fps only. When 30fps is your desired final output, I would also record in 60fps.

If you are PAL then it's 25 and 50, though modern TVs and YouTube can play back just about anything.

Maybe test on a TV you often use and then stick to the same framerate.