cheesehole said:

(SNIP)

I encourage people to verify my results (or disprove them), as playing with Spot's results was what made me realise that he had made a mistake in the first place.

Also, with regard to any "personal bias" I may have, if I have one it is pro-Spot. I have only posted messages on this forum that disagreed with Spot a total of twice in the years I've been reading him. This is because, in all that time, I've only disagreed with him twice! And in the other instance, it was a matter of opinion/philosphy (copyright) in which good people can agree to disagree - this is our first (and hopefully last) factual disagreement. I have nothing but respect for Spot (I know I'm getting monotonous on this point, but I'm hoping to get through to Spot).

I like Spot so much that not only do I still believe that his error was an honest mistake, but I also believe that his rather hostile response to me pointing it out is probably due to a simple misunderstanding (I think my politely-worded comments hit him at the same time as some pretty rude ones), plus him being busy travelling and prepping for NAB, surely a stressful time.

I'm sure one day we will all look back on this argy-bargy and wonder what all the fuss was about. I for one don't see the big deal even now - the manual and help file seem pretty clear on supersampling to me (though some apparent deinterlacing (side?)effects have been spotted in another thread - very interesting stuff that I haven't had time to explore fully, mostly because at the moment I don't have an external PAL monitor hooked up to my system).

If I had to lay odds on the cause of the problems with Spot's tutes, it would be a mixup with similarly-named files on his hard drive, plus a bit of misremembering. I still see no evidence of dishonesty or deceit, and I'd appreciate it if others were careful to make that distinction too (most have).

Apart from anything else - if it turns out I'm wrong, I wouldn't want anyone accusing me of lying either! It would be bad enough to discover that I had honestly wasted everyone's time. :-)

All the best,



Skevos Mavros
http://www.mavart.com

>>>But that doesn't make anyone right or worng. It means their methodolgy was wrong or something was overlooked. What I'm objecting to is the attack on personalities rather than ideas.

Oh I see what you were saying Bob. I totally agree - and I think aside from maybe one person near the very beginning of the thread (which probably put Spot in a bad mood from the start!), for the most part people bent over backwards to be understanding. You can see several attempts to "end" the thread on a positive note. But it just wouldn't happen until the issue was really resolved. And just to be absolutely clear, my "disingenuous" comment was in regard to comments made on this particular thread and really doesn't mean anything beyond that. Everyone has their moments. I have no reason to believe Spot's original intent was to deceive anyone and I have absolutely no hard feelings for him or anyone else on this board.

And it appears the tutorials have been taken down. Ahhh closure. :)

- Ben

Hardened? Nah...no one is hardened here. I'm comfortable with being called "prairie nigge**" "stupid" "liar" "bullshi**er" "fake" "jerk" "deceitful" "disingenuous" etc both in public and private. Aren't we all? (for those who read absolutely literally, this is what's called "sarcasm")
Rather, I learned a lot about this particular community in the thread. I learned that:
A single sentence (s) can be pulled from a paragraph and turned into a topic, therefore skewing its meaning completely in multiple settings.
I learned that in this particular forum, some folks don't hesitate to jump to ill-reasoning, and unreasonable behavior. And that they'll take a general characterization and turn it into a personal slur. And that regardless of what else is going on at any turn, what some people want is the most important thing in their lives regardless of the cost to someone else.

FWIW, each year my family goes to Hawaii to honor and respect the death of my son. Without knowing what you were doing, six of you were absolutely bent on destroying what that means to us. Be pleased with yourselves, you succeeded. All science, professionalism, decency, intelligence, and candor aside, we're still all people here. But some of you behave worse than animals. This easily could have been a civil thread. In all my years of moderating and participating in forums, I can honestly say I've never seen a thread hit this level even with a guy known as Kat on the original canopus boards 7 years ago. And I guess that's all I have to say on the matter.

Spot: FWIW, it is obvious to me that many of the people on this thread hold you in very high regard. Despite your attitude, they seemed to have an unending supply of understanding for you. I admit I have my limits (and absolutely 0 interpersonal skills), but if you read back you'll see that many people were behind you all the way even when they disagreed with you. If I were you I'd be careful not to paint everyone here with the same brush.

I can honestly say I've never seen a thread hit this level even with a guy known as Kat on the original canopus boards 7 years ago.

You are really lucky. I've seen much, much worse! Just hop on Usenet or take a peek at almost any political forum :D

Children have No sense of Racism.. So therefore its a learnt behaviour anyone intelligent enough to use Vegas would have to be really stupid to see Racism as having any form of Validity... I look Forward to future Generations Not Learning Racist Behaviour. "Just throw it away Spot" Ignore it the same way you would Spam I Would get a Secretary ! Or your Emails vetted... Anyone in the Public Eye will get Rubbish Post.

Spot,

When it comes to avoiding giving you offence, I now officially give up. You seem determined to take offence at what I say despite constant statements (not just by me) that you are liked and respected and that any disagreement is not intended as an attack on you. It's particularly odd that you would say of others (me?):

they'll take a general characterization and turn it into a personal slur

When this is almost exactly what you are doing - taking a reasonable criticism of your tutorials and turning "it into a personal slur".

Although I have never said to you any of the terrible examples you gave, it's clear that you somehow see me as part of the "problem", and I am genuinely mystified as to why. But as of now this is no longer going to be my problem, it's going to be yours - as it seems clear to me that you will claim to take offence at just about anything I say that disagrees with you. So be it - this is your choice.

I shall, of course, remain civil and professional towards you even when we disagree, I just won't continue to bend over backwards to make it clear that nothing personal is intended - what's the point? You'll take offence anyway. I'll even remain polite when you make unfortunate comments such as this:

FWIW, each year my family goes to Hawaii to honor and respect the death of my son. Without knowing what you were doing, six of you were absolutely bent on destroying what that means to us. Be pleased with yourselves, you succeeded.

If you can't see how that statement is both self-contradictory (how can one be unknowingly absolutely bent on destroying something?) and unfair (spotting an error in your tute ruined an event in your life that we didn't know was even taking place?), then you must be going through a difficult time indeed. I sympathise. When you recover your composure enough to realise how unnacceptable a thing this was to say, rest assured I will be ready to listen to you.

At least you appear to have taken the misleading tutorials down. This is a solution of sorts - not as good as correcting them, but better than leaving them up. Well done on that at least.

All the best,



Skevos Mavros
http://www.mavart.com

I have to be honest, my curiousity is getting the best of me. I sure would love to see this infamous tutorial. I'll be keeping and eye out for it.

I was intrigued with this dialogue but couldn't read all the posts. Too much mud in my eye.

Peace,
Mark

p.s. anyone have a free plane ticket to N.A.B.?