.... but without a way to test monitor the final output, you're flying blind. . . . AND by this I would also add: Using a USER-Friendly GUI to do it too.

Grazie

In agreement with our Cockney friend.
Just used izotope RX to remove air conditioning drone from under a violin solo.
Blissful would be a good way to express the outcome.
Or magical.
For the left-brained among us there is a logical reason.
I'm with the Grazemeister on all this technical rambling though.
All I need to know is where to go to lower this setting to -31 if that improves the audio.
It's a right brain thing.
Don't we do that every time we download an upgraded version.
Vaguely remember doing that six of seven times.
But I forget how.
That's an OLD brain thing. LOL.
Also, why not just default the setting to -31 if that's better?

Why not create a new preset instead of trying to remember?

All I need to know is where to go to lower this setting to -31 if that improves the audio.

From the render option in Vegas:
Encode set to AC3;
Click on custom tab;
Dialog normalization: -31 dB;
Dynamic range compression: None;
On the first tab set diag. norm to "-31";
On the last tab marked preprocessing;
Set the Line Mode & RF mode profiles to "None";
Now save this as a preset.
I did this back in Vegas 6, named mine AC-3 mod, and it continues to show up in each new release (even V9 Pro).

Mike

Dolby do make hardware encoders / decoders that I believe let you do exactly that, at a considerable cost.

I doubt there's much that can be done to simplify the interface, this is not a simple 'unity' system, it gives the listener the ability to change the dynamics of the soundtrack depending on their listening environment or preferences. To monitor the outcome you'd need to check it under all the options that a listener may choose e.g. how will it sound in 'cinema' compared to how will it sound in 'night' mode.

We're probably fairly blessed with the way SCS have implemented the interface. I have been called on once to help out someone doing the same thing with FCP. The interface it provides for the same encoder is somewhat simplified however it doesn't give the user access to all the parameters from what I could find.

Bob.

Peter Wright asked
"At what stage in the Vegas/DVDA workflow did you apply Noise Reduction?"

Al replies to Peter:
Fairly early on in Vegas just before using multi cam

Al asks:
Can someone tell me how I picked up the name "OP"?

Grazie asked:
Going along with Peter's suggestion, would it be possible, Al, that you have rendered
using the NR with the Keep Noise check box - checked? This would have the effect
of a rendered out lowered signal.

Al replies to Grazie:
Do you mean"Keep residual output" check box? If I did (and I cant remember), what
effect would it have on the output?

"OP" means "Original Poster"

If you had left the "Keep Residual Output" box checked, it would have had the opposite effect that you wanted, it would have removed everything but the noise and this would have been very obvious.

John, thanks for answering on my behalf - I needed for the Globe to rotate and giving me some sleep. . . . and yes John: " . . . and this would have been very obvious."

Al, I was asking to see if there is some way some crucial bit of levelling has happened. NR does reduce noise and we can elect to render with it kept in. I was throwing-out the possibility that this was the sound that had now come front and centre AND with another levelling had taken over for you to achieve this low level.

When you play the files back on the Vegas Timeline they sound good? AC-3? Back on Timeline? . . . Try rendering to some other format of audio and playing that back? Have you tried playing back "another" DVD on the playback system? Are they good? If not then look at the system that plays back? Stranger things HAVE happened! - Are you playing back on your PC? Have you altered the playback levels of the PC? - I'm trying here!

Interesting indeed . . .

Grazie

Thanks for the clarification on OP. I thought it meant "Old Person" :)
Hi Grazie,
I filmed an interview and then mixed a Cinescore soundtrack in, dropping the Cinescore vol when the subject spoke then bringing it back up again during the chapter breaks. The dialogue track was left at 0db and I did notice that the level meters didn't come anywhere near peaking. Thats why I originally asked about normalising the dialogue track. Then when I rendered out to Mpeg2 for DVDA, I dropped in a short intro clip which had music, and the volume of the intro clip nearly blasted me out of the room. So I had to re-render the intro clip and lower the volume (originally set at 0db) to match the volume of my interview clip. Which brings me back to levelling overall volume. It seems a shame to lower the intro clips volume just so that the main movie is balanced. How then am I to get the interview volume back up without introducing hiss by moving the faders over 0db?

Put the intro audio on its own separate track and use the Mixer? That's what I would do. No need to interfere with your already edited stuff?

Grazie

Ah! You are applying the INtro clip into DVDA? On its own Audio Track? Is that it? Sorry, I am being thick . . .

Grazie

"The dialogue track was left at 0db and I did notice that the level meters didn't come anywhere near peaking. Thats why I originally asked about normalising the dialogue track."

Based on what you're asking I suspect you need to get your head around the difference between 'level' and 'loudness'. Unfortunately there's no words in our vocabulary that definatively denote the difference, well not that I can find.

This is a fairly profound subject, really too much to cover in a post in a forum. If I haven't already I'd recommend readling "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" by Jay Rose. It covers this and many other issues you'll come across in your quest for audio Nirvana.

One thing you need to learn to use are your ears. The peak meters in Vegas do exactly what they should but unfortunately they don't directly tell you how load your audio is. Modern music mixes can read 0dB Full Scale and so can your dialogue. Turn you TV up so you can hear the dialogue and yes, the music will blow you out of the room. Turning things down is a better first attempt than turning something else up.

Bob.

Grazie said:
"Ah! You are applying the INtro clip into DVDA? On its own Audio Track? Is that it? Sorry, I am being thick . . . "

Al replies:
No. The intro is the bit that plays automatically when the DVD is inserted. It plays, then the menu comes up. It's called "Disc start" in DVDA.

"The intro is the bit that plays automatically when the DVD is inserted."

And you don't want that at a higher volume?

My intro media (for my own family use) is "GREAT ASS PRODUCTIONS" in 3d coming out of the screen.... with low-toned organ notes slowly going around the room at table-rattling volumes... sort of a demonstration of the 5.1 surround sound. It certainly gets everybody's attention!

So after all this is your problem under control?

If you want to make dialog sound louder compression is your friend. You do need to know how to do it. Also if you've got an issue with background noise you'll quite likely make it more noticeable when you add compression. I find compression ratios of 1.5 to 3.0 work very well for adding just a little more punch to speech. Anymore than that and it can start to sound like a BOGOF ad.

Bob.

Thanks for all the input. I am going to try using audio recorded seperately next time. I have a Sony digital audio recorder and I'll dub that in next time bypassing the camera sound. Hopefully that will get the dialogue up louder as I won't need noise reduction and lead to a better overall production. Its been interesting reading all the resposes. Many thanks everybody.

Good audio is much harder to accomplish than good video.

I know you're talking about your own family use, Blink, and table-rattling volumes may get attention, but if the rest of the DVD is not the same volume, it will annoy rather than entertain.
The same with music played over Menus - viewers set their volume to this and if the subsequent movie level is higher or lower it comes across as badly put together.

The rest of the video IS at roughly the same volume.... just not the same 'pressure'. (ie: not boosted/compressed). Not withstanding.... that's what DD5.1 sound is all about (it's what I was talking about way above). You need to take advantage of the technology. I don't know if you've heard a Blu Ray before, but the dynamics is absolutely amazing in them! Someone is speaking and the center channel is coming across at a normal volume, and then you hear an explosion.... the room lights up and shakes/rattles.... etc.

Blu Ray action movies are built with audio at all kinds of different levels, and pressures.... and when done correctly it enhances....not 'annoys'!

Blink, Dolby Digital AC3 audio isn't capable of any more dynamic range than uncompressed PCM, MP3 or WMA. Movies are just mixed differently than, let's say, a wedding video or a TV commercial.