+1
Only caveat, it should be On by default.

Bob.

+1

If something hurts, I tend to say so.

+ 1 : Default on, or whatever, not bothered. Maybe a nice big fat graphic-aware Button would be nice.

There's just too much "denseness" to this subject that it needs dumbing down for, well, me!

Grazie

+1

also

+1 to a much clearer / defined button on /off on all buttons....

What you really should be asking for is for Vegas to handle all the levels conversions automatically. This is what every other NLE out there does.

Doing things manually is too hard.

Doing things manually is too hard.

Now THAT I understand!

G

"What you really should be asking for is for Vegas to handle all the levels conversions automatically. This is what every other NLE out there does"

Yep, +1 . Its not just an easy preview button, its the whole video levels handing from cameras to render.

Right, who's for a pint?

Paul.

How do ALL the big dogs do it?
Premier? Final Cut Pro? Avid whatever?

It should do it like the most successful NLEs

+1

Jack

+1
And as ushere said,
+1 to a much clearer / defined button on /off on all buttons....

Mike

Right, who's for a pint?

It comes in pints??? !!! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

What you really should be asking for is for Vegas to handle all the levels conversions automatically.

Naw, not until all camcorders and all videographers get it right, or are at least in agreement.
For now, a WYSIWYG preview in Vegas would be a treat!
I can deal with the rest.

+1

Nick

What you really should be asking for is for Vegas to handle all the levels conversions automatically.

1a- Then you don't understand what you are asking for. If you want a WYSIWYG preview in Vegas, then Vegas needs to automatically handle all the levels conversions for you.

1b- I'm not saying that Vegas should "fix" the illegal values that cameras record. That's a different issue. Vegas should behave like every other NLE in converting levels for you based on well-established video standards.

2- *WYSIWYG is somewhat of a false concept if you need to output for video formats like DVD.
http://www.glennchan.info/articles/technical/external-video-monitoring.html

What you see in Vegas is NOT what you get. But... that's a different issue.

Btw, the feature you want sort of exists already. You can use the Windows Secondary Display as a preview device and check the "studio RGB" box in its settings.

And like I said before... having to manually wrangle levels in Vegas is a bad idea. Vegas should handle this for you. Doing things manually is:
- a waste of time
- difficult (many of the advanced users on this forum don't know what they're doing... including the ones writing tutorials on uploading to ______)
- error-prone
- completely unnecessary

"Vegas should behave like every other NLE in converting levels for you based on well-established video standards."

Sorry Glenn but based on my recent tests it does exactly that, it behaves exactly the same as Ppro at least.

The differences are:

1) Ppro displays the video correctly, Vegas doesn't, at least not on it's Internal Preview monitor.

2) For JPEG images Ppro will convert the cRGB to sRGB to conform to the sequence, Vegas does not.

Bob.

Bob (farss),

I think you are misinterpreting the results of your test.

You state "Ppro displays the video correctly, Vegas doesn't". This is exactly what I'm talking about... it's messed up that Vegas doesn't display your video correctly. Every other NLE on the market will display your video correctly. Vegas isn't displaying your video correctly because it isn't making the right levels conversion.

"Vegas isn't displaying your video correctly because it isn't making the right levels conversion"

It is making exactly the same conversion, scopes read the same, rendered output is the same from both apps within say +/-5%.

Bob.

If Vegas isn't displaying the video correctly then it isn't making the same conversion.

It could and should do this. (Vegas should make similar conversions so that you see a correct image.)

So we don't argue semantics, let me be clear about what I'm talking about. In other video programs, you can do the following:

A- Add a JPEG and (proper) DV file to your timeline. Both formats will appear correctly in the video preview window.

B- You render your project out to MPEG2/4 and upload it to Youtube/Vimeo. The levels should be correct.

C- You render your project out to Windows Media and upload that to Youtube. The levels should be correct.

D- In a more general sense, you can take different source formats and output to a number of delivery formats with proper levels. No manual intervention regarding levels is required.

E- Switching to 32-bit floating point numbers for processing (e.g. After Effects can do this) should not throw a wrench into things.

Or basically...
1- Is your video preview correct (almost) all of the time.
2- Is your video output correct (almost) all of the time.
To me, that is correct behaviour. If you have a different idea of correctness... then we'd just be arguing semantics. Anyways, the point is that Vegas doesn't automatically handle levels conversions for you and I think that this feature is badly, badly needed. I remember endless discussions with Bill Ravens on this... eventually he understood how Vegas worked and decided to use another NLE.

(Arrrhhgg!! . . . . )

"If Vegas isn't displaying the video correctly then it isn't making the same conversion."

How so?

Both Vegas and Ppro converted XDCAM EX from Y' = 16-235 to correct RGB values.
In vegas on a computer monitor which is calibrated to display cRGB yes, Vegas displays the decoded video incorrectly, that surely is to be expected.
On the Secondary Display, also a computer monitor, also designed and calibtrated to display cRGB Vegas will display the video correctly when the switch that does the sRGB to cRGB conversion is On. If I send the video via firewire to an external CRT via an ADVC-300 video appears correctly, well it's been a few years since I did that but I doubt it has changed.

Form the above the only logical conclusion I can reach is that Ppro and Vegas decode video exactly the same and correctly. I'd point out that in my most recent tests I set out to prove that Vegas does it wrong and I failed.

A- Vegas fails here becuase it preseves the levels used for JPEG, on the Secondary Monitor the video will be correct and the JPEG wrong.

By comparison Ppro converts the cRGB space used in the JPEG to sRBG.

B- The video portion will be correct, the JPEG will wrong. Ppro will get both correct.

C- Not certain, for WMV I usually have to apply a sRGB to cRGB conversion with Vegas. Have not tested this with Ppro.

D- Absolutely agree with the intention here and agree from what I've seen that PPro would do better than Vegas.

E- Agree here too and I dread to contemplate what happens now they've added S-Log support to V12.

"So we don't argue semantics, let me be clear about what I'm talking about..."

I would say semantics are very important here although I would say "decode" is a pretty specific term. I'm not defending Vegas and there's plenty to complain about in this area but I think it's important to be specific and correct. If users take their case to SCS they need to define correctly what they want fixed and how Vegas decodes video is not an issue.

What is a serious issue is that I can setup Vegas with two identical monitors, one showing the Vegas T/L and the internal monitor and the other as the secondary display and video will look different on those two monitors. In the case of those with only one monitor e.g. a laptop, the internal monitor will incorrectly display the correctly decoded video.

Bob.

Preview switch: Yes!!!

Modified level processing: No!