VP10d does not show keyframe markers properly

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 6/18/2011, 7:57 AM

Hi fellow editors,

I'm in the middle of a larger project, that for the first time relies heavily on keyframing. I remember people complaining about keyframes in 10d, especially about lots of unintentional keyframes suddenly appearing almost on top of each other. Neither was the bug there before (10d), or then I didn't use too much this feature, but now I think I have stumbled over something...

I'm doing keyframe controlled color correction using the Sony (primary) color corrector. It almost drove me nuts before I understood that SOMETHIN IS BROKEN IN VEGAS 10d! Making changes in the color corrector correctly adds keyframes, but they do not always show up in the FX window!!! When the keyframes shows up, there is often a bunch of them so close to each other that the duplicates goes easily unnoticed - unless you zoom the timeline in the FX window really large. I have heard about this complaint before, but is there an explanationabout behaviour somewhere?

Looking at the project timeline the keyframes are there, but not in the FX window, see picture below:

The green circle indicates a just added keyframe (in the FX window), however, the FX window does not show it ( red circle). I have the sync button active (in the FX window) so the cursors move in sync. Dragging the timeline cursor in either window plays the timeline and the keyframe does what its supposed to do, but IT DOES NOT SHOW the diamond mark (indication of the keyframe) in the FX window.

Displaying keyframes is a mandatory and basic function, if it does not work it makes editing a nightmare!!! I have lost more than half a day of work due to this bug - It took that long for me to understand that the error is on the other side of the keyboard...

Is there a way of avoiding this problem? Yeah - another work around is needed for this professional application... Anyone else that can confirm similar problems with the keyframes??? If so, please chime in. I'm preparing an error report soon to be sent to SCS. I would swear that this worked before (10c) OK.

Cheers,

Christian

EDIT: I found out that this seems to be again one of those update problems in Vegas. Closing the FX window and reopening it will show the missing keyframe positions, but when further editing you again then have move blindly or reopen the FX window repeatedly... this definitively needs a fix ASAP.

Comments

LoTN wrote on 6/18/2011, 11:53 AM

Hello Christian

This problem exists since 10a. Among other problems there is a window refresh issue which is not related to plugin type: whether OFX or not doesn't change anything. Missing keyframe markers can occur on the project TL too. Time offsets do happen too, the only method I am sure about when having to align a keyframe is to do it with the project TL. Apparently, the coder(s) who worked on the new FX interface did it too fast and have left bugs and misconception errors. Until now I was surprised no one spoke about these and I'm still wondering how beta testers haven't reported them...

Here are screenshots dated november 2010. Yes, you're not alone:

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 6/19/2011, 2:25 AM

Hi LoTN,

Thanks for confirming. If this bug has existed since 10a and SCS has not yet fixed it, there must be a good reason for it - or is there? Did anybody report about it to SCS? What was their reply? They could not reproduce it - or what?

This IS a major issue, and should be fixed immediately. Key-framing is currently not completely impossible, but is a real guesswork and needs lots of trial an error - a real PAIN in the a**! Gee I miss the stability and reliability of V6...

I' filing my bug report now.

Christian

LoTN wrote on 6/19/2011, 2:46 AM

During fall 2010, I filled a detailled bug report with a comprehensive list of all issues I discovered with VFX 10a keyframing. It took me some time to try to make SCS support to understand the issues, today I am still not sure they really got it. It looks like only the lack of snapping has been fixed.

I won't fill any further bug report (see my explanation in Vegas audio). If you take on this I just have to wish you good luck with SCS support...

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 6/19/2011, 3:26 AM

Hi,

"Question" is now filed by SCS... Thanks again LoTN for confirming. This is such an ELEMENTARY function that just MUST work! I just wonder how SCS tests the software? DO they USE it for serious video editing on location? Such a thing (as this) would not go unnoticed if you really use the software for real world editing. I never used keyframes for any serious work, this was my first, and I stumbled immediately over it...

Christian

LoTN wrote on 6/19/2011, 4:33 AM

I use keyframes almost all time. Even without doing real world editing there are some of those VFX keyframe issues that I consider being design errors and lack of code proofing during dev time, not bugs.

I just wonder how SCS tests the software

Beside the code proofing failure, I wonder what do beta testers and when thinking about all that stuff I also fail to understand how other users can cope with this when working on complex projects.

Kimberly wrote on 6/19/2011, 7:35 AM

Hello Christian and LoTN:

Is the problem intermittent? I just tried to create the problem on my computer (10d, 32-bit, Windows 7) and the keyframe seems to display fine in the FX window. Having said that, can you remind me how to display the keyframe markers on the timeline? I don't use keyframes much but I still want to understand this issue.

Regards,

Kimberly

LoTN wrote on 6/19/2011, 10:36 AM

Hello Kimberly,

Is the problem intermittent?

For the windows refresh callback issue it is not persistent if you close/open some windows or Vegas.

The keyframes are also displayed at bottom of track containers. To see them, if a VFX or motion is applied, you just have to expand the track enough to see the little diamond button located a the bottom left of the track header.