VP21 b300 - VP22. Still unresolved bugs with 4K MXF and HEVC files

pierre-k wrote on 4/8/2024, 10:16 AM

I have a big problem with MXF files.
Vegas uses mxcompoundplug.dll

Although the videos play amazingly smoothly now, there are major problems.

1. For some interviews, the image is delayed by about a second. There are often artifacts in the video and flickering of images from another part of the file.

2. MXFs are imported as multichannel audio even if this option is not enabled.

3. If I open multiple MXF files, they look like this in the timeline:

I don't have time for more experiments. I am reverting back to a lower version.

Format                                   : MXF
Format version                           : 1.3
Format profile                           : OP-1a
Format settings                          : Closed / Complete
File size                                : 147 MiB
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 51.5 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-06-07 09:46:50.000
Writing application                      : Sony Mem 2.00

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 46.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 50.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.452
Stream size                              : 134 MiB (91%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
transfer_characteristics_Original        : xvYCC
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840

Audio #1
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 3.30 MiB (2%)
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #2
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 3.30 MiB (2%)
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #3
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 3.30 MiB (2%)
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #4
ID                                       : 6
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 3.30 MiB (2%)
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840
Locked                                   : Yes

Other #1
ID                                       : 1-Material
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : MXF TC
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 15:08:14:42
Time code of last frame                  : 15:08:38:41
Time code settings                       : Material Package
Time code, stripped                      : Yes

Other #2
ID                                       : 1-Source
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : MXF TC
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 15:08:14:42
Time code of last frame                  : 15:08:38:41
Time code settings                       : Source Package
Time code, stripped                      : Yes

Other #3
ID                                       : 7
Format                                   : Acquisition Metadata
Muxing mode                              : Ancillary data / RDD 18
Duration                                 : 24 s 0 ms
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Delay_SDTI                               : 54494840
IrisFNumber_FirstFrame                   : 5.600182
FocusPositionFromImagePlane_FirstFrame   : 9.400 m
AutoExposureMode_FirstFrame              : Full Auto
AutoFocusSensingAreaSetting_FirstFrame   : Manual
CaptureFrameRate_FirstFrame              : 50.000 fps
ShutterSpeed_Time_FirstFrame             : 1/50 s
CameraMasterGainAdjustment_FirstFrame    : 0.00 dB
ElectricalExtenderMagnification_FirstFra : 100%
AutoWhiteBalanceMode_FirstFrame          : Automatic

Other #4
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode                              : SDTI
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 15:08:14:42

Back to post

Comments

Gid wrote on 7/26/2024, 10:00 AM

@Reyfox This is a video that does show it. It is a variable phone clip but I don't believe that makes any difference as the same can be seen with the Vegas chequer/bars. It's something to do with Vegas on my monitor, my monitor is a Dell 32" UHD, it has 50hz & 60hz as options, I've tried both with the same result. I've tried all Preview quality options & UI layouts inc Default. 🤷‍♂️

----------------

I should correct when I said I don't see this all the time, every clip I've just tried has this, it's not so noticeable on most videos but It shows clearly in videos that have movement & some straight lines, like these poles

Reyfox wrote on 7/26/2024, 10:36 AM

@Gid that is just plain ugly. I don't have anything with vertical slats to shoot, but I've never seen anything like this with the videos I shoot with my camera.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/31/2024, 6:31 AM

@pierre-k

What are the exact specs of you nvidia GPU? How many GB RAM does the GPU have?

VEGASSteve wrote on 7/31/2024, 6:40 AM

Hello guys, the thread seems to collect a number of problems again. I checked with the original file "C70 A071C005_210625F3_CANON.MXF" and it still looks correct. It a MXF with 4K AVC 4:2:2 24 fps file. The previous positioning problem seems to be still fixed.

Would you please be so kind to describe your single problem that you personally have, with:

setup graphic card in settings > file i/o
original file and download link @VEGASDerek can help with a upload location if required
specific problem - wrong positioning / choppy playback / duplicated frames
(optional) MediaInfo

pierre-k wrote on 7/31/2024, 9:59 AM

@VEGASSteve, @VEGASDerek, @Wolfgang S.

Here is a complete example of the problem with one 4k MXF in VP22:

I/O OFF
Transitions are not smooth and there are no artifacts in the video.
This is how the video was played before until the VP 21 b208 version. Slowly but without mistakes.

I/O UHD770
if you make a simple Transitions, errors appear in the video.

I/0 GTX970 4GB
after editing for a while, the video has different errors than the UHD770. Time skips in the video.

Exactly such errors appeared in VP21 b300. For Full HD MXF, bugs were fixed in a later version. Not for 4K MXF though.

test video:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B6TWVNuDGKBaduVejWjiarg8fVf-OKJg/view?usp=drive_link

.........................................................................................................................................

Second issue with MXF and micro-stopping events between cuts:

It occurs if the project is more complex and contains, for example, 60 MXF events and other tracks with graphics. If you play the project a second time, the problem disappears, but if you extend the event, you will see the stopping at the point of the original cut.

example:

I noticed this problem in older versions of Vegas with other formats - MP4, M2T, and others. Since Vegas switched to the SO4 plugin, the tearing problem has disappeared. Now jerking appeared with MXF in VP21 b300 and VP22.

link to download the entire project:
I sent it to Derek in a message. I don't want to post it here.

VEGASSteve wrote on 7/31/2024, 10:47 AM

Thank you for the detailed description. This looks like two independent problems - block artifacts on some play positions with Intel, and delays on a new video event while playback. I'll have a deeper look here.

pierre-k wrote on 7/31/2024, 11:08 AM

@VEGASSteve

Thank you. If you need it, I am ready to test your fix and provide more information.

if you're interested, I'll show you other bugs that have been bothering me since Vp12.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/1/2024, 9:28 AM

Combination i-GPU video/i-GPU in I/O preferences:

so confirmed artefacts.

Combination GPU/GPU (not tested here up to now):

so also confirmed artefacts.

Tests performed on my laptop.

pierre-k wrote on 8/1/2024, 9:59 AM

@VEGASSteve, @Wolfgang S., @VEGASDerek

I have another video for you to test that also produces the same errors as in MXF.

It's a 4K HEVC MOV.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrPXIKQf3IaK07npXmTOXQ3MGYgsRXFJ/view?usp=drive_link

Former user wrote on 8/1/2024, 6:29 PM

@VEGASSteve, @Wolfgang S., @VEGASDerek

I have another video for you to test that also produces the same errors as in MXF.

It's a 4K HEVC MOV.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrPXIKQf3IaK07npXmTOXQ3MGYgsRXFJ/view?usp=drive_link

@pierre-k Have not seen picture distortion , do see the slowdown created by the Vegas playing 2 mov's at same time. This was a problem for mp4 in VP21 but was fixed afaik

Reyfox wrote on 8/2/2024, 2:23 AM

There is no doubt that @pierre-k has issues with this file format. I downloaded the file. On a straight playback, no issues. Created a cross dissolve of 1 second and over 5 seconds. Different preview settings from Best>Full to Draft>Auto. Playback of the file with nothing done to it, there are no issues. When adding the default transition is where you can see the pixelation.

But with his MXF files, I've had no issues at all with playback, scrubbing or adding transitions.

bitman wrote on 8/2/2024, 4:51 AM

@pierre-k @Reyfox I tried the above soccer video with the settings as Reyfox, but I do not see the pixelation that Reyfox has. Then again I have a different CPU (intel vs AMD) and different decoder HW (NVIDEA vs Radeon).

Before I forget, as this is an older thread mentioning VP21, I used VP22 b93

Reyfox wrote on 8/2/2024, 6:10 AM

@bitman, I too am using VP22 B93. Turning off GPU acceleration in Preferences>Video, and File I/O and there was no pixelation. Of course playback was from the CPU, which struggled at a little of 6fps.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/2/2024, 8:36 AM

Do not see that either - maybe because it is a HLG file that should be edited in a HDR project setting?

RogerS wrote on 8/3/2024, 12:35 AM

I was able to trigger a black frame before an edit point that shouldn't be there (there is no break in the footage).

I just put the video on the timeline, split it into parts with s, rearranged them, played it back and saw what looked like a black frame even though you see the thumbnail that we are looking at a real frame, there is no gap.

Stepping forwards and backwards frame by frame with a crossfade I was also able to trigger green decoding errors:

GTX 1050, standard file io settings (NVDEC with MxCompound).

Reyfox wrote on 8/3/2024, 7:09 AM

The thing is, during initial playback, there were no issues. But once I started scrubbing with the arrow keys, did the pixelation appear. Then it was always there, but would crop up in different places.

pierre-k wrote on 8/3/2024, 7:17 AM

The thing is, during initial playback, there were no issues. But once I started scrubbing with the arrow keys, did the pixelation appear. Then it was always there, but would crop up in different places.

It's a relief when you finally see the same thing as me.

It would be appropriate for the team to release a fix for VP21 as well, because the error first arose there.

pierre-k wrote on 8/12/2024, 9:01 AM

Thank you for the detailed description. This looks like two independent problems - block artifacts on some play positions with Intel, and delays on a new video event while playback. I'll have a deeper look here.

@VEGASSteve

Hi. Have you figured out how to fix both bugs yet?

Thanks for the info.

VEGASSteve wrote on 8/13/2024, 3:57 AM

The first problem solved is an issue with long-GOP MXF files, here a positioning problem could be fixed. This resulted in some artifacts while stepping backwards (around each 12..15th frame). Second issue is in progress, this seems to happen with NVIDIA decoding and accessing multiple streams at once, this shows sometimes also artifacts. A third problem shows up on some older AMD cards, here the driver cannot handle certain stream situations and produces errors or crashes. This needs to be worked around.

Please check update notes by @VEGASDerek when any fix will be in the update.

VEGASSteve wrote on 9/25/2024, 4:21 AM

the third problem was solved by simply disabling certain formats for AMD hardware acceleration. In this case it is 10 bit 4:2:0. Here some drivers will crash with some material. We try to get an update from AMD, however this will take usually a number of weeks..

pierre-k wrote on 10/1/2024, 5:06 AM

@VEGASSteve

Hi. Thanks a lot for the great news.

Have you replicated and fixed this problem? I wrote about him above in this thread.

Second issue with MXF and micro-stopping events between cuts:

It occurs if the project is more complex and contains, for example, 60 MXF events and other tracks with graphics. If you play the project a second time, the problem disappears, but if you extend the event, you will see the stopping at the point of the original cut.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp21-b300-and-big-problem-with-mxf--145196/?page=5#ca921228

pierre-k wrote on 10/31/2024, 7:48 AM

Hi Steve @VEGASSteve @VEGASDerek @RogerS

VP 22 b194

Intel quicksync:

I see a radical improvement in the first two files.
No artifacts when editing. The football players are still bad. Lots of artifacts.

GTX970

with the GTX970 everything is bad. No improvement.

......................................................................................................

There is still a problem with events getting stuck at the end of the cut on the first play. It's annoying.
in VP21 b208 this problem is not there.

VP21 b208

VP22 b194

pierre-k wrote on 11/1/2024, 6:37 AM

@VEGASSteve @VEGASDerek

Important Update:
Today I tried setting the Dynamic Dram video preview slider to 0 in VP 21 b208. The playback is just as bad as in VP21 b300 to VP22 b194. It always stops for a moment between cuts. If I increase the Dram value in VP21, the tearing disappears.

But this does not work in VP21 b300 to VP22 b194. Any Video Dram value has no effect on the smoothness. It seems to be broken.
Can you please take a look at this?

VP21 b208

VP21 b300 to VP22 b194

And please communicate. Your silence is unbearable.
Thanks.

RogerS wrote on 11/1/2024, 6:43 AM

@pierre-k Did you make all your test files available? I've only tested the truck and football players I believe. If others are different formats and still showing problems in 22 it would be good for multiple users to test them.

For dynamic ram preview I think this is a red herring (unimportant compared to the other changes to the video engine post 21.208). Just leave it on defaults.

1 … 3 4 5 6

of 6