Well, Sonic Foundry by email said that this is intentional and there are no plans to change it. (Another guy on the phone seemed bemused about the issue and so I just advised him to pass it along but I was not encouraged.)

I told them that I don't see the logic: why do we need to worry about
Window's file-size limits: we're TRIMMING the project!

I can't remember how I got the Batch Converter (maybe part of Sound Forge 6 now?)but frankly, the only logical reason I can think of for not allowing us the option of a standard wave file Vegas is (I'm sorry to say) to force us to purchase the Converter. (Whether separately or bundled with another SF product.)

Or am I missing something?

Matt

"...the only logical reason I can think of for not allowing us the option of a standard wave file Vegas is (I'm sorry to say) to force us to purchase the Converter."

How about forcing you to keep using an active and licenced Vegas and making it difficult to import your project assets into a competing DAW?

Not only does "Copy and Trim..." not give you the option of saving as WAV, which prevents you from directly accessing source assets in another program, there is also no Broadcast Wave support which time-stamps individual files in a project making it trivial to do the same. Also, EDL's have to be translated by third party software, and there's no direct EDL export to other formats.

I actually thought it was an oversight, till I read your post about Foundry's reaction to your query. Judging by that, it's definitely proprietary BS that's there for purely commercial reasons and by nature makes life more difficult than it should be.

Auditioning assets in the last project we did (we run 3 stations with Vegas) was an minor issue (a PITA issue) because of this; our assets management software couldn't read these files. We try to edit before importing to the project folder, but in many cases it's too disrupting to the workflow; fundamentally "Copy and Trim..." is a great tool, but saving the files as WAV would be ideal.

I really like SF software, but I agree that in this particular issue, their decisions demonstrate more self-interest than customer courtesy.

Angels

Well regardless, they're making the workflow for large projects needlessly complicated. (I promised I wasn't going to whine about whatever quick response SFoundry's tech support gave me but the more I think about this the more it annoys.)

Also (to introduce a new suggestion) since I'm trimming a project I would REALLY LOVE an option or two that would permit the naming of the new media files to the TRACK NAME and/or ACTIVE TAKE of each clip!!!!

I'M HOPING FOR A FLOOD OF SUPPORTERS!!! I'd jump through any Batch Converter hoops if they'd give me this last suggestion.

Maybe someone can start a separate thread for that idea so people who aren't already paying attention to this one can check it out. (Or if it's already been discussed maybe somebody could point me to that thread?)

ciao

Slightly un-related is the fact that video files (yes, i know this is the Audio forum) get split into separate silent .avi files and .w64 files by this procedure. I'm sure i'm not the only one who would prefer to have the audio remain inside the .avi file whenever possible.

I'll grant that it could be difficult to determine which audio came from which .avi file after they've been split up on the timeline. But it seems like a large portion of the edits i've seen retain the audio track and the video track together. Perhaps if the audio & video have never been ungrouped, they should be placed in the same file together when trimming.

I'll tell you a big secret: with Vegas 4 and DirectX 9 it is possible to write a script that will do 'Copy and Trim' and keep original media formats (wav, audio with video). I'm not going to undertake this unless I need it myself. I'm sure someone somewhere will do it eventually and there is nothing to stop it. Vegas 4 scripting rules!

Alexei

Noooo!

I'm a musician, not a programmer!! I wish software people would stop trying to turn other people into programmers.

OK: who's going to write the high-level scripting configurator with a graphic UI?...

<sigh>

Look, I was up at 4:00 AM to start the day yesterday (?) JUST dealing with configuring and mastering software/hardware headaches. I AM NOT GOING TO PROGRAM EITHER.

However, I will HIRE someone who CAN use scripting to trim media into standard wave files and to name the new sound files with something from the TRACK and/or ACTIVE TAKE NAMES.

Any takers?

Matt

If you are trying to move a Vegas project to say Protools, why not export each Vegas track as a separate wav or aif file? Load the files in PT, slam them all up to a start mark, strip silence...and you are done, with NO chance of sync problems or file incompatibility or any other odd project interchange hassles.

If I'm missing the point I'm sure someone will be kind enough to straighten me out.

The point is: "Copy and Trim".." is a great function, but [non-programming] user rendering to Wav64 is undesireable because of its incompatability with any but Foundry's products.

"Copy and Trim..." to standard MS "wav" would make life much simpler for my company to sort through thousands of sound files with standard asset management software.

That's as succinct as I can make it.

A

sometimes we have to edxit these files in other 2 track apps that dont care for the w64 format, say " t-racks" ?

comeon just give us an option

In reply to Sonic EPM:

Lets say I want to prep tracks for use on a professional mix stage.

Yes, you can stick a pop on each track and print each to a file. Or just make sure each sound file per track that you render starts at the same point. And then line them up in another program.

But what you get is:

1. A timeline where each track contains only a single clip (or "event" to use Vegas' nomenclature). The clips' associated sound files necessarily contain a lot of space-wasting silence.

2. An "event-less" timeline that can't function as a virtual cue sheet for a mixer who is seeing/hearing material for the first time.

3. No events with virtual fades and handles that can be adjusted by that mixer!

Come on: I think you must be aware of this.

Right now an OMF created from a Vegas EDL by a program like Fairlight's AVtransfer makes it possible to take your material to a ProTools oriented mix stage. Or Dyaxis. Or something that accepts AES31 stuff. Or a bunch of other formats.

Right now (once they iron out a bug) SEKd's EDl Convertor can take a Vegas EDL and turn it into a Sawpro EDL. Or Samplitude. Or some other Daws' EDLs. Other utilities can stamp your files with Broadcast Wave info as well.

I don't understand Sonic Foundry's implied insistence that making this sort of thing more doable somehow violates Vegas' model. You know, "start and finish in Vegas alone."

I DON'T WANT TO NOT USE VEGAS. It is precisely because it's UI and simple Surround Sound functions work so well for me (not to mention its price) that I proselytize for the product and base one of my business's services around it. It IS faster and easier to cut tracks to picture with this program.

But then for some unexplained reason I am not allowed to get my material out of SF's proprietary and unnecessary w64 format without jumping through the hoops mentioned at the start of this thread.

In addition, in order to stamp a trimmed project's sound files with useful info I have to become a programmer and master scripting. (Or I have to hire someone to do it for me, if the requisite talent pool even exists yet).

What kind of useful info? How about an event's associated TRACK and/or ACTIVE TAKE name? (Like I've mentioned earlier in this thread.) This very info would be particularly useful in the virtual-cuesheet-timeline angle mentioned above.

Sorry to be long winded but you asked for clarification.

If I am correct it looks as if Nuendo will be supporting wav 64 in it's next update.

PV