Waiting on a Miracle...

IHAYES wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:16 PM
Thank you, in advance, to all whom read this post and lend there services....

To save some typing and reading, let me start by saying that I am having the EXACT same problem as listed in the following thread:
(2nd post: Date: 10/25/2007 5:12:42 PM)

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=556946

When dragging an AVI file into Vegas, its height is reduced by 50%.

I built this PC for our church media department a few weeks ago and it was working just fine. Pinacle studio 10 was installed and after that, about half through rendering Vegas would just close, no error, no fatal messages....just closed. So, in an attmept to resolve that problem, i uninstalled Pinnacle 10, seeing is how the system performed flawlessly prior to its installation. Once removed, vegas worked fine again.....excpect for the 50% height of any and all AVI files that i drag into Vegas.

i have spent the past 2 days Googling my heart out; i have downloaded programs (gspot) to ensure the necessary codecs are installed for the AVI, i have tried changing codec priority, and unisntalled/reinstalled/updated video drivers, all to no avail.

The only software installed on this PC is Vegas, Nero 8, and all critical and optional windows updates.

I am now running Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Ver 8.0d(build 139).

I have a sneaking suspesion that the DV Codec(?) that was used by Pinacle, perhaps, corrupted something or created some kind of dependecy...maybe? I dunno. What i do know is that i am very comfortable in and around the PC, but video codecs and the like, present a gray area for me and i could really use some help.

I am not beyond formatting to fix this....but I hardly call that a fix.....more like killing a fly w/ a sledge hammer. :)

Thoughts?






Comments

ushere wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:48 PM
are you sure your program properties match your source files?

leslie
IHAYES wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:57 PM
seems like a simple concept, but no, i am not sure.

i do know that the source(avi) file is 720 X 480 and i see that before i even attempt to load the file, below the preview window, it reads "Project: 700x480x32, 29,970i".

does that mean they match?
ushere wrote on 4/4/2008, 9:05 PM
file > properties > video

template should match your source files - to make sure - little folder on right - point it to one of your source files.....

nu?
johnmeyer wrote on 4/4/2008, 10:04 PM
After dragging a file to the Vegas timeline, do two things:

1. Right click on the video on the timeline and select "Properties." Then, select the Media tab. Note the resolution, aspect ratio, and field order. Click cancel to exit this dialog.

2. Now, click on the properties button in the upper left corner of the Preview window. Make sure that the resolution, aspect ratio, and field order match the properties you recorded in step one.

Very often you can get very odd looking video if these two do not match.

If you are dealing with video from a camera, hopefully it conforms to one of the presets, such as 720x480 resolution and 0.9091 aspect ratio for NTSC DV.
busterkeaton wrote on 4/4/2008, 10:12 PM
If you think that something got messed up with your Vegas Installation because of Pinnacle, I would uninstall Vegas and then reinstall it.
IHAYES wrote on 4/5/2008, 6:11 AM
johnmeyer and ushere-

i have checked all the mentioned properties and the all match. let me also reiterated that this only occurs w/ AVI files, if take an MPEG1 file and drag into the time line, it looks fine. also, if i play the same AVI file in another player, say windows media player 11, it looks fine.

busterkeation-
i have already uninstalled Vegas, thinking that would be the easisest fix, then reinstalled...no dice. after which, i d/loaded the latest version.....still no luck.

it is b/c of all the above that i think its an AVI codec issue of some sort. from what i've read online, vegas uses its own "Sony DV Codec"...is it possible that vegas is not using the codec that its supposed to use for this video type....seeing is how this video plays/looks fine in anyother player?

thank you all again for you help.
plasmavideo wrote on 4/5/2008, 6:27 AM
I'm wondering if any of the following might point you to where the problems lie:

1. Were these AVI files captured in Vegas, or in another program like the Pinnacle?

2. I'm not sure about Vegas Studio, but in Vegas Pro you can go to preferences and check a box marked "Ignore 3rd Party DV CODECS".

3. Right click on My Computer, go to Hardware/Device Manager. Under Sound, Video and Game Controlers (you need to expand the category) and click on Video CODECS. Click Properties and it will display a list of CODECS installed. If there is a Pinnacle DV CODEC there, you might try deleting it and see if the problem goes away.

That's all that comes to me at the moment.

Good Luck.

Tom

IHAYES wrote on 4/5/2008, 7:00 AM
plasmavideo-

1. these AVI files were captured in Pinnacle

2. vegas studio has the same option, and it is already checked off. also i have flopped b/w checking "use microsoft DV codec"....either way, no effect.

3. i did find "Pclepim1.dll" which i found to belong to Pinacle, so removed it....still nothing.

when doing step 3...i wonder, is there a particular dll files that is the "Sony DV codec" ?
plasmavideo wrote on 4/5/2008, 1:28 PM
1. Interesting. Somehow I think that's the answer (Pinnacle captured files). Do you have any way to convert that file to MSDV CODEC? Also, I wonder if UNchecking Ignore other CODECS will allow Vegas to see it properly. Remember to restart Vegas after applying the change. You might have to have the Pinnacle CODEC installed to try that - whoops, I had you uninstall it :-)

Also, there is a way to change the wrapper header in DV files so that they appear as a "regular" DV file in Vegas. If you have Virtualdub you can edit the header. John Meyer had a post about that a while back. You might do a search for something like "change header" and see what turns up. I'm not anywhere near my editing computer right now, or I could walk you through it. I've done it with several quirky problems involving Canopus DV files in Vegas.

EDIT: Here's the original information that John gave me:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=489499

Also, I wonder what would happen if you take that file on the timeline and do a "render as" using the Vegas DV preset and then bring it back in. Perhaps the height issue will go away at that point.

Tom

busterkeaton wrote on 4/5/2008, 2:08 PM
Do you have the tapes? It may be just easier to recapture and do the whole project in Vegas.

Also I would contact Sony text support, there may be something messed up in the metadata of the Pinnacle files that is causing this probably. It may be something you edit in the file via a text editor or other tool.
johnmeyer wrote on 4/5/2008, 2:11 PM
1. Start a new Vegas project.

2. Put the offending video on the timeline.

3. Immediately right-click on the video event on the timeline and select "Properties."

For an NTSC DV file, your dialog should look similar to this:



You can also download the following utility:

Gspot

You can run this directly from the zip file (i.e., no need to install). Drop your problem file on the window and you should get something that looks like this:



The right side of the dialog is what you want to look at. Record what you get for Codec and Name; Pics/s; pic(wxh); and sar, par, and dar.
IHAYES wrote on 4/5/2008, 6:07 PM
plasmavideo-

i am 100% agrement w/ you..it IS something about these Pinacle captured AVI files. i actually "re-rendered" them using some 3rd party program; i rendered a portion of one of the source AVI from AVI to AVI again, then dropped it in vegas...viola, no more height problem....but i did have video quaility degradation. so i've learned my lesson, going foward i will capture w/ vegas ( i did not have firewire on this board previously, but bet i'll be adding a card in a few minutes) so that i do not have this problem again. i guess now my only task is to try and salvage the original source files w/ out vidoe quality loss.

busterkeaton -

i do not have the orinal tapes any longer....i'm looking at about 4-6 sunday services worth of footage, the avi's were dumpped and the tapes reused. regarding sony tech support....is there a way to put this thread on their radar? suppose i could just call?

johnmeyer-

funny you mention gspot....when trying to fix this on my own, prior to the post...thats one of the programs i had used....below is the information....

Gspot:
Codec: MJPG
Name: Motion MJPG
Pics/s: 29.970
pic: 720x480
sar: 1.500 (3:2)
par: 1.000 (1:1)
dar: 1.500 (3:2)

Sony Vegas Media Properties:
Attributes: 720x480x24, 01:58:28;12
Format: Sony Motion JPEG
FrameRate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Field Order: Lower Field First
Pixel Aspect Ration: 0.9091 (NTSC DV)
Alpha Chanel: None
johnmeyer wrote on 4/5/2008, 7:23 PM
Well, I'm stumped. Hopefully someone else will have an answer.
farss wrote on 4/5/2008, 7:34 PM
Wasn't this video captured over an analgue hookup and by the looks of what GSPOT is saying it was captured to mjpeg. Didn't Vegas have the same problem with mjpeg from the Intensity card ending up half height.

Bob.
IHAYES wrote on 4/5/2008, 7:45 PM
farss-

hopefully im not mixing termonology here....but i belive it was captured by analog hook up (s-video and the red/yellow/white cables) through the Pinacle Dazzle device (below) that connected to the PC via USB 2.0.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Dazzle/Dazzle+Video+Archiving/Dazzle+DVD+Recorder.htm


John_Cline wrote on 4/5/2008, 8:29 PM
Yes, Vegas did have a half-height issue with Intensity MJPEG files. The v1.8.4 Intensity drivers fixed that problem. VirtualDub has a built-in MJPEG decoder, perhaps one could take the problematic MJPEG files and transcode them into something that Vegas will deal with, like Lagarith or HuffYUV.
farss wrote on 4/5/2008, 9:46 PM
Yes that's an analogue hookup. Loose it quick. Use firewire. If you need to capture from analogue tapes such as VHS or Video 8 or Super 8 spend the money and buy a Canopus ADVC 300. If that's a bit too expensive then get the ADVC 110. I've tried a Dazzle and one other, the 300 has been rock solid and it's done a lot of work.

Also try John's suggestion below about your codec problem.

Bob.
plasmavideo wrote on 4/6/2008, 9:10 AM
Yes John, I've used Virtualdub to convert MJPEG files to other formats quite a few times. If there is enough harddrive space converting those to Huff would be the best approach, I think, or at least convert them to DV so Vegas would have a better shot with them.

My wife's and my daughter's Canon still cameras shoot video in MJPEG, and I use Virtualdub to resize them and clean them up before editing them in Vegas or Edius.

If I remember correctly, my first video capture card, a Matrox Rainbow Runner, captured in MJPEG. I wonder if I still have some old footage from that lying around on a hard drive somewhere.
johnmeyer wrote on 4/6/2008, 9:29 AM
I still have Vegas 7.0d (no MJPEG codec included). I simply installed the trial version of the MainConcept MJPEG codec and use that. No need to do anything outside of Vegas (in VirtualDub or otherwise). So, if the problem is the Sony MJPEG codec, perhaps installing the MainConcept MJPEG codec and defeating the Sony one would solve the problem.
IHAYES wrote on 4/7/2008, 7:11 AM
farss-
thanks for the confirmation, regarding analog hookup.....believe me, its gone now, never to return...i installed the firewire card and will capture directly into Vegas going forward.

to all who've helped me w/ this-
thank you. i've actually figured out how to reproduce this problem, perhaps this will help someone figure out WHY it happens.

1. install vegas and pinnacle studio 9.
2. capture video via pinnacle studio 9 and the dazzle capture device.
3. load into Vegas and notice that the AVI file looks fine.
4. remove Pinnacle.
5. load file into Vegas....file height is reduced by 50%.

These steps have actually been confirmed on another machine, hopefully this gives some incite to the true nature of this weired problem.

As for my problematic AVI files; VirtualDub?...i d/loaded it, here's my questions...
1. Am I to just "re-reneder"/"re-encode" the files so that Vegas will play nice?
2 If 1 is true, what steps need i take, or is there a resource online to assist?
3. Will i be able to maintain the original AVI's video quality?