WANTED: Vegas Editor for an AWESOME MOVIE! ($250)

ShannonRawls wrote on 9/3/2004, 12:34 AM
OK....here's the story....

We just finished a wonderful production shot with 2 Panasonic DVX100a camera in 24p mode Advanced. All is well and an Editor was hired. During crew calling I prefered a VEGAS editor because that's what I use when I edit, but naturally all types of editors using various platforms applied for the position. Well, I hired an AWESOME editor who was going to use "AVID Xpress Pro 4.5". I seen his work, I liked his work, I was ready to pay him...I was going to deliver the Hard drive with the clips from the production and everything....until.....I visited the AVID website to check out his gear. (for my own personal security)

Now, what I found is that the AVID Xpress Pro 4.5 with the Mojo seems to be a phenomenal piece of equipment...however... IT DOES NOT WORK WITH .AVI FILES!! *red flag*

Avid uses their own proprietary format called '.omf' causing a non-conforming, non-fluid workflow. What I mean is, as a Producer, I do not like to be 'locked-in' to going back to the editor. I mean I would never change an editors cut without asking him to do it (film etiquette). That's like altering your mothers BBQ Sauce recipe or changing the music a composer makes for you without telling him. I would never do that to an editor, BUT....just to "look" at my footage, or maybe cut a small trailer, or for every little thing or whatever it is I may want to do after I receive my drive back, I want to be able to do it without making an appointment to use his proprietary AVID system. They say this .omf format is better, but I don't care nuthin' about that! I want AVI....period! It does say that it can be converted or whatever, but if it doesnt edit .avi files natively, then I can't work with it. *sorry* Also, it exports only Type-1 .avi files and they are limited to 2gigs (even with XP Pro NTFS). Additioanlly, because it works with this proprietary .omf file type, to make a DVD, after your done with your final cut, you have to go from AVID to Sorensen Squeeze and then do a conversion, and then from there you must make an mpeg2 and THEN to your DVD authoring program. *shakin' my head* Sorry...I want one nice single large DV file staright from the editing program in .avi format that can go straight into whatever DVD Authoring program we choose.

Needless to say...I am now forced to find another awesome & capable editor...and now I am going to stick with a professional editor who uses what I am familiar with.... VEGAS!

SO..here's the Deal....

I am now crewing for the editing position for "<UL>MATTHEW 26:17</UL>". The movie production went super smooth, it was mind-blowing! The cinematography is stunning and the picture is gorgeous. The production sound is awesome too. (although we may need to bring a few actors in for ADR and have the sound designed for the final cut).

The project was shot with two Panasonic DVX100 cameras (the main camera was the 'a' model). It was filmed in 24pAdvanced mode using about 5 MiniDV cassettes each (4 hours 20 minutes) and the entire project is fully digitized in .avi dv clips on a single 250 gigabyte Western Digital Hard Drive. Each take is a separate clip all nicely organized into folders and each clip is named corresponding to its take. *ready to edit*

Also on the 250GB drive is about 1400 high resolution still images taken with a Canon D1 Digital SLR camera, The actual Clips of the 'auditions' during the casting call of each actor that was hired, behind the scenes interviews of every cast and crew member, clips from a rehearsal and a time-lapse clip of the set being built from a Canon XL-1s camera. All this extra footage is there for the Special Features section of the DVD that will be edited by MOTIMEDIA once the movie is finally completed.

We shot the movie in Letterbox mode with the intentions of making a 2.35:1 widescreen 24p DVD movie with a running time about 25-30 minutes long. The purpose of making this film is the aspirations for artistic purposes of those involved (cast and crew alike), to enhance the reels of the key department heads (like yourself) and to flood the festival market with this wonderful story. We missed the SUNDANCE deadline (which was Sept. 3rd) and that really upsets me, but that's OK, we will be sending it to other noteworthy festivals once the movie is finished. (It will also be headlining at MY film festval...

We will be hiring a composer (and possibly a sound designer if you cannot handle that part) to work alongside you to bring this picture to completion so we can all witness your gorgeous Final Cut.

I am writing this to see if anyone is interested in adding another feather in their cap by editing this wonderful project for the compensation stated in the subject of this message (it still is a low-budget project *smile*), also you will receive Copy, Credits, Experience, Exposure, and listing on http://www.IMDB.com. I am an editor myself (I use SONY VEGAS 5) but as the director of this project, I believe that would be a detrimental mistake trying to take on the TOTAL creative responsibility of making this movie. We all know that directors always fall in love with their footage, and I am no exception. *smile*

So if you are up to the task and you have a little extra time on your hands and the equipment to make this happen please visit the link below to read all about the movie and download the script. If you like it, you can visit the other link below to fill out the short form to contact me. I'd like to know what soft/hardware you have to make it happen so let's talk further.

Visit the site. You can see the production stills and everyting else...

"MATTHEW 26:17" website: http://matthew2617.beoutpictures.com
Editors who want to cut this film: http://www.beout.com/casting/crew-matthew2617.htm

Thank you,

- Shannon W. Rawls
- BeOut! Motion.Pictures
- www.BeOut.com


winrockpost wrote on 9/3/2004, 6:17 AM
$250 per hour, day, week, project ?
p@mast3rs wrote on 9/3/2004, 7:27 AM
Reading through your problem, I cant help but wonder why you hired an editor before doing your research. You hired the guy to do a job so I would say let him do it.

If I am not mistaken, AVID can output DV AVI files. Been a while since I played with it so forgive me if I am wrong.

Last, I am assuming $250 is for the entire project. You will be hard pressed to find someone to edit an entire film for $250 unless they are starving or just want the experience.

Jessariah67 wrote on 9/3/2004, 7:51 AM
Agreed. $250 is as good as asking someone to do it for free. The only projects an established editor is going to do for free is their own.

I'm curious why you don't attempt this yoruself? You've obviously already done much of the ground work with pull-through & slugging/organizing.
GmElliott wrote on 9/3/2004, 8:52 AM
Considering it'll probably take 60+ hours in post- $4,000 is a more reasonable rate. If your at all interested- contact me for samples of my works.
ShannonRawls wrote on 9/3/2004, 11:08 AM
You're right, I should have done better research before hiring someone for the job...I was just a day late. However in my defense, one thing I NEVER anticipated was that a PC based Edting system made in the year 2004 would not support an .AVI file. I mean, c'mon, that's a low blow.

I realize the total price of $250 is not much, but ... I am not sure where you live or how they do it there, but here in Hollywood CA, people will almost pay the producer to work on a film project! Working for free to get experience at a job they aspire to get paid for in the future is a wonderful thing. I can give you countless success stories for people starting off that way, Starting with Stephen Spielberg...and guess what...1/2 of those people who work for little to no money are as good or BETTER then the so-called 'seasoned & experienced' crew members who are stuck up, complain on set all day long, and eat all the craft services.

I'm telling you what I know, not what I heard. So to me, $250 is not bad for a creative editor who is really good at using Vegas and aspires to be an highly paid Editor as a career and needs a good place to start. And this short film is a wonderful start...don't you think?

Additionally, to some people, the nature of the project alone is worthy of their free hire. I have received emails from people saying "I will do this for free, keep the money...you're telling a good story about Jesus, and to work on that type of project is payment enough for me). But again, maybe they do it differnet where you live. Here in L.A., relationships & experience is priceless.

Edit this myself...trust me, I am tempted....but no. I think it is good to work on someone elses stuff rather then your own (the primary reason I am not doing it myself).
[r]Evolution wrote on 9/3/2004, 11:57 AM

Don't be mislead... the OMF files that you speak of is the way AVID deals with all files. AVID is actually known for it's 'Media Management' on long projects. The OMF is for just that, Media Management. You'll notice that a lot of people that edit projects with multiple takes of the same shot absolutely Love the AVID system for this. The OMF file is a reference type of file that AVID uses. It can and will be able to use your .avi's!

Notice how AVID NLE's come in different flavors for different budgets. Ranging from AVID FREE (yes, FREE... meaning -you pay no money for it) all the way up to their top of the line AVID HD setup. All of these will communicate with one another. That's where the OMF files come into play. The OMF basically puts all the Media, Edits, and Effects into a language that AVID has adopted so that all of there software products can read what the other has done. This is how you Offline a project on say AVID Xpress but are able to Online it with an AVID Symphony or Composer. These OMF files are the reason. VEGAS does not have this ability. This is also one of the reasons AVID is the Hollyweird... ooops... I mean, Hollywood choice for longform/movie editing. -Media Management- Some day, hopefully, VEGAS too will adopt a better way of managing media for longform edits. They've come a long way but still have a ways to go.

If you come from one AVID studio to another, all you need to do is load thes OMF files and everything else will link itself. No matter which AVID your project was started on or moving to, as long as it's AVID it will be able to read and understand the OMF files. The only problem is once you hire an AVID editor you will lock yourself out of being able to change any edits unless you also have an AVID station or will be taking it to another AVID editor/station.

All in all, AVID will do what you are looking for. But if you are hoping to be able to change some edits... you should definitely get a VEGAS editor or purchase and learn to use the AVID system.

--Yes, I do edit on both AVID and VEGAS in LA, Hollyweird, OrangeCounty, & SanDiego.--

spacesounds wrote on 9/3/2004, 12:52 PM
You want someone to cut AND color-correct this project for $250.? What's your budget for film scoring and sound design? Another $250.?

This quote from your earlier post struck me:

"... here in Hollywood CA, people will almost pay the producer to work on a film project! Working for free to get experience at a job they aspire to get paid for in the future is a wonderful thing."

Maybe that's why Hollywood CA has lost a better part of the film industry over the past few decades. No offense intended here, but maybe you should be posting on a college job board. Look for a first- or second-year film/video student, someone who maybe lives with their parents, with no resposibilities, to do the job. $250. is just not realistic. Sorry!

Good luck in finding someone!
ShannonRawls wrote on 9/3/2004, 12:54 PM
Wow Lamont! Thanks for the heads up. I need to inform the AVID edior about this. Honestly, he was fine with dropping the project because he said himeself "I can't use .avi files. I have to recapture all your minidv tapes or convert what you have and make a quicktime refeferce.....and I don't know if the files will retain the pulldown information during the conversion"

I don't know. Some very good Vegas editors are applying, maybe I'll just stick to my guns.

If you know if anybody who wishes to edit this 20 minute project, please let me know.
ShannonRawls wrote on 9/3/2004, 1:01 PM
space sounds said: "maybe you should be posting on a college job board. Look for a first- or second-year film/video student, someone who maybe lives with their parents, with no resposibilities"

OK...and what makes you think they don't come here to this wonderful SONY MEDIASOFTWARE website to learn about Vegas Video the same as you??? The manufacturers website of all places. lol This is a discussion forum for VEGAS USERS at the VEGAS SITE. I didn't see a sign at the door that said "Only professionals allowed who charge big money may enter"

If you don't want to do the job....don't apply and move on to the next post. For those first- or second-year film/video student who lives with their parents with no resposibilities that want to edit a pretty cool project, not for free, but for $250 bucks cash that frequent this Vegas discussion forum....please contact me. (no rocket science to this concept is it?)

Let's playa game....
Anybody know of a or ever heard of a first- or second-year film/video student that did something monumental in Film? Became rich and famous from their skills and was better then most prolific filmmakers??

I can name about 20!!!
winrockpost wrote on 9/3/2004, 1:47 PM
unless I misread something

it aint a film project.Its a video project.
I agree it sounds like a good opportunity for a student to get some hands on experience
Nat wrote on 9/3/2004, 2:12 PM
Wow 250$.

That's what I did a day on the last project I worked on....
fmc wrote on 9/3/2004, 2:21 PM
MUTTLEY wrote on 9/3/2004, 3:07 PM
I just find it humorous that this guy is boasting about being Hollywood and what an amazing incredible " film " this is, but yet he's got a budget of $250 bucks for the edit and is looking on the internet for a student to edit this masterpiece.

Shannon, though you, this thread, and everyone of your posts reeks of BS, that kind of arrogance could get you far.

- Ray

Skywatcher wrote on 9/3/2004, 3:56 PM
Man! This post took a dump...FAST!!!
Jessariah67 wrote on 9/3/2004, 4:25 PM
I was in an Amy Grant video once. They paid me $150 AND gave me a haircut...and I didn't have to edit a thing...

There is a "due-paying" scale in this business, no doubt about that. Most of us who do this for a living had to take a lot of grief, swallow a lot of pride and do a whole lot for next to nothing when starting out. You might get lucky and find real talent for cheap. If it were my baby, I'd find the $4K-$10K it would probably take to get good editing, sound & post. For every good "we did it on a $2000 budget" movie out there, there's 500 that are terrible.
MJhig wrote on 9/3/2004, 5:35 PM
Come on folks, read between the lines (or feel that wet fish slapping your left cheek). This is one of those "Evangelical/Do it in the name of God" kind of things. Not my bag but if someone is predisposed to this and is willing to work many hours for that aimed at a target audience then so be it.

jdas wrote on 9/3/2004, 6:51 PM
There is a saying..."When you pay peanuts,you get monkeys". Is it worth the risks ?
epirb wrote on 9/3/2004, 6:54 PM
If I did feaure films I might just do it to meet Mary Magdelene or Mother Mary (pretty smokin!!) and use the 250 to take one of them to dinner.
markrad wrote on 9/3/2004, 7:26 PM
If that was an attempt at humor epirb you weren't even close.
More like offensive.

MJhig wrote on 9/3/2004, 8:32 PM
If that's offensive to you then you truly don't believe, hence impervious to other's beliefs or you are offended that everyone doesn't believe your way.

BillyBoy wrote on 9/3/2004, 8:34 PM
Where the heck is Zippy when someone needs his talents.
Spot|DSE wrote on 9/3/2004, 9:51 PM
Sorry...I want one nice single large DV file staright from the editing program in .avi format that can go straight into whatever DVD Authoring program we choose.

Unless it's to 4:4:4 or 4:2:2, you DON'T want your masterpiece to be rendered to avi first. You want the MPEG to come straight off the Vegas timeline, and if you want it great, you'll potentially want 2-pass as well.
Vegas' use of the MC encoder is one of the best encoders around in the software game. Obviously, you're after the fewest transcodes possible, so you might as well get it right from the timeline.
AVID can open avi files, no sweat.
That said...If you can get any one of much quality to edit nearly 9 hours of vid (2 cams at 4.4 hours each) for $250.00, looking at your stills...it's clear you put a LOT into this production. Why not rough cut it yourself, get some $$ together, and THEN find an editor to sweeten/finish edit?

FWIW, no disrespect intended, it would be virtually unheard of for Sundance to have accepted this film as its religious in nature. It would qualify as a US Short, but knowing almost every person on that acceptance panel for many years.... Religious films don't make it at Sundance unless they're stories of extremes such as the story of the Tibetan struggle, the Russian pogroms, or religious repression. I can't recall any biblical stories having ever been accepted except for one that was more of a scientific "anti-bible" story several years back when Tony Safford ran much of the event.
But who knows...it's media, and Sundance is a media festival.
Good luck at your MiniDV Festival!!
OK, here we are just after the Sundance Festival 05' where there were not one, not two, but THREE religious stories on film. This is the first year these sorts of films have been accepted, so while my original assertion was correct, my second statement is no longer true. Since someone bubbled this thread up, I figured it's a good idea to correct myself.
epirb wrote on 9/4/2004, 5:35 AM
How are you offended that I find the two actresses attractive?
There was no religiuos conotation to the comment, thats just what roles they play.
I'll admitt, my sense of humor is always a little tweaked (although this really wasnt an attempt at humor).
My Stepfather, a Presbyterian Minister, once said in a sermon.
"I know God has a great sense of humor, every morning when I look in the mirror."
I believe we can poke fun all things Religion, Politics etc. and most importantly ourselves.
I spent some time looking around Shannons site, one of the things he say's is regarding this job,is that even though the $$ are low,there are other oportunities ie: experience, and meeting new peolpe etc.
If Shannon found it offensive then I will appologize to him.

The Epirb
James Green wrote on 9/5/2004, 12:29 AM
"Additionally, to some people, the nature of the project alone is worthy of their free hire. I have received emails from people saying "I will do this for free, keep the money..."

Well, sounds like you've got your answer there Shannon....No sense in beating this dead horse if you've got someone who wants to do it for free anyway huh?

My .02 though....
I agree with Spot, if the movie is awesome, do a rough cut, impress someone who has the green and then hire someone who can tighten the whole thing up.
Also, save the talk about how many of the greats started small and made it big. If you insist on doing it though, try listing right next to it how many started off small and never got big.
If you really are in Hollywood and the video is that wonderful, I don't understand why you don't have more of a budget...I mean, come on...that's where the rubber meets the road. I have a hard time believeing you can't find more help in that town of all places.
You say "...here in Hollywood..." like you are already a player there when what it really sounds like is you are located in the Los Angeles metropolitan area actually trying to "break into Hollywood" yourself. That would at least explain your approach.
One thing I've noticed is that legit people don't ask others to work for peanuts or for free...first, because (aside from the backbiting at the upper echelons) most people in production at our level understand what's really involved and know that quality does not come free or cheap. There's always an investment be it time or money...and when time is money...well, you figure it out...Second, asking someone to work for free or for next to nothing only sets one up for future problems should he/she discover in the future what a gem they really have. People will be coming out of the woodwork screaming about how they didn't get paid....just look at the dispute over the Spiderman theme song by the lead singers from Saliva and Nickelback.
Do yourself a favor, be a little more profesional about it. If all you can offer right now is $250 but could possible defer additional payment til later if you get distribution...say so...But don't offer cash, then say you've got people on the line who will do it for free. That just sounds too much like you are trying to sucker someone desperate into working for you for the money too quickly before the "opportunity slips through their fingers" and someone "charitable" does it for free.

James Green