Canon 7D for that special look

should add 'limited' look. you want to base your doco on dof?
then add a considerable amount of external hardware when shooting outdoor events?

as jay wrote, stick with a proper video camera.... the ex1 is as good as it gets at its price point.

the pics from the canon are stunning - but it's not for everyday work.

DSLR video is about more than DOF.

The contrast rendition also gets people excited, because it produces video that compares with "video camera" footage the same way 6x6 cm Hasselblad photos compare with 35 mm Leica shots.

The images are just richer in a way that can only be seen in a system-wide MTF graph, and this comes from using a larger sensor.

DSLRs are a pain in the hamstrings in so many ways today, but it's good to make an informed decision.

Pros for docos: inconspicuous so people don't become so self-conscious, smaller so easier to get interesting camera angles in compact rooms, organic image quality, you can get three DSLRs for the price of an EX1, ...

Cons: crappy audio so you need double sound for best quality, recording time limit on most cameras, difficult to handhold without extra support gadgets (I wonder if anyone has used the FigRig for this?), ...

Totally agree with the above except what you'd be buying is the EX1r which does add a prerecord buffer which could come in handy for doco work when things can happen when you least expect them.

Workflow is very simple.
Backup cards twice. Put 2nd backup in physically different location.
Import into Vegas native and edit. Doesn't get any simpler than that.

The latest firmware in the EX cameras make recording to SDHC cards very reliable. You could probably afford to use them like tape. Still dump them asap but for that extra protection....

Don't forget about the audio side of this either.



Bob.

"Don't forget about the audio side of this either."

That was one of the "obvious reasons" I was thinking of, Bob. You also mentioned simple work flow, thats' hard to beat, with Vegas (another reason).

"I wonder if anyone has used the FigRig for this?), "

Not the best rig, you have to hold the thing with two hands.

Zacutos Tactical Shooter rig has been very popular, leaves one hand free to rack focus. Add Arri MFF-1, ring gears for the lenses, rods, matte box, ND filter kit. Starts to add up to a reasonable amount of weight and cost.

All up for a 5D kit we're looking at around $10K to $15K, more expensive than a EX1. Seriously good money to be made renting them out at the moment. Cheapest body only is $110/day, others charge upto $300/day. Full kit from Panavision $600/day.

Not so certain about your comments on MTF. Shooting stills sure but the difference between shooting stills and video on these cameras is chalk and cheese. Remember only half the rows in the sensor are scanned.

Bob.

"... but the difference between shooting stills and video on these cameras is chalk and cheese. Remember only half the rows in the sensor are scanned."

Another obvious (perhaps the most important) reason!

Another obvious (perhaps the most important) reason!

Obvious other than if you look at the imagery.

Looks compelling to me.

PITA to shoot and post? Yes.

Compelling? Yes.

In addition to the audio concerns mentioned by others, you may find that zooming or focusing while shooting may not be easily accomplished with the Canon. I would strongly urge you to rent one for a week and use it in circumstances and conditions that closely resemble your upcoming project. Above all else, you need to be absolutely certain that you will be able to achieve consistently reliable and completely usable results.

For mission-critical projects I always use the tools that I KNOW will produce a solid result. I have learned the hard way that choosing a "better" tool that I am unfamiliar with or that requires additional time or resources that I do not have can sometimes be catastrophic.

I recently evaluated the Canon 7d, Nikon D300s, and Panasonic GH-1. We ended up purchasing the Panasonic not because of its absolute image quality, but because its features gave me the best assurance of obtaining a usable result under MY typical shooting conditions. Specifically, I needed an AF system that works well while shooting video and a very good image stabilizer.

I often need to shoot stills along with video and my time constraints are very tight, and that was a primary reason for purchasing an HD DSLR. I shot the majority of my last project with the GH-1 at 720p (I found 1080 to be unusable) and it turned out well.

I wonder if anyone has used the FigRig for this?

There is a "show us your rig" thread in the GH1 forum on DVXUser.com. Several people use Fig Rig-like setups. I'm skeptical.

Right now I'm thinking that still cameras are good choices for a B camera. Not a primary camera.

Rob

Coursedesign, have a look at this clip (virtually straight from the camera):
http://patrykrebisz.com/viceroy/wide_mateusz.mov

Do the horizontal lines jumping up and down still make the footage look compelling to you?

...and from the "other" camp.

I LOVE my Canon 5d.
But NO WAY would I embark on a year long doc with it.

It's sort of like buying a Ferrari to haul lumber - no way Jose.

What the guys above have stated is obvious and simple. Pick up your Sony Z, turn it on and shoot. It will come out magnificently. Load it into Vegas. It will cut like butter. What you have stated is a scientific documentary. That will be judged entirely on the script and execution. No one will ever mention the subtle quality of your imagery - and if they do... you probably have failed in your real goals.

I LOVE my 5d - but I ain't stupid.

v-

Coursedesign, have a look at this clip (virtually straight from the camera):

That looks like not even The Foundry plug-in could fix it...

I trust you had the latest firmware which I thought I heard reduced this?

So, for docos, don't use a 5D unless you can reshoot or you know this kind of unusual background won't be there.

Or in case it's newsworthy, in which case a 1999 camera phone will be fine...

Thanks everyone for the valuable input.

First off, with only about ten days shooting I think renting the camera(s) is the most sensible option. It is fairy cheap in Berlin (eg. 110€ for a day with an EX1).

I am now thinking, this may be a good approach: A Sony EX3 as the main all-purpose camera and a DSLR only (if at all) for specific, controlled situations like interviews (with extra sound recording equipment) or shots in the laboratory.

Marc