What does 32-bit processing mean to me?

BrianStanding wrote on 8/30/2007, 10:08 AM

Rather than clog up the already lengthy VP8 thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

32-bit processing seems to be the new feature in V8 that everyone's going gaga about. I confess that I am completely ignorant on this topic. busterkeaton and fwtep tell me that I should see better looking video after color correction using a 32-bit engine.

So, let's take a concrete example:
Let's say I am shooting in a nightclub, with overall dim lighting. The singer is on a stage with a couple of theatrical spots (gelled in various colors) thrown on her, giving her a decidedely reddish tinge when she steps away from the central spotlight. I have to crank up the gain a bit (let's say 9db) on my PD-150 to get a decent exposure. Due to the mixed lighting (over which I have no control), I either set a manual white balance at a point near the microphone, or set the camera to the "tungsten" WB preset and hope for the best.

Now, let's say I have loaded this footage into my spiffy new VP8 with 32-bit processing, and add the Color Correction, Secondary Color Correction and Color Curves FX and start tweaking. What does the new 32-bit engine give me? More natural-looking colors? More subtle increments of change? A broader overall dynamic range? More subtle and natural masks and selection of color ranges to be corrected?

If I add a Smart Smoother filter, do I get a more natural looking and less blocky noise suppression?

Please excuse my ignorance and enlighten me.

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GlennChan wrote on 8/31/2007, 9:41 AM

Does FCP do 32 bit?
FCP can be set to do 32-bit "YUV" processing. (They actually mean Y'CbCr.)

From what I recall, it can't input R'G'B' sources with higher than 8-bit precision (though you can see 10-bit material, it just gets reduced to 8-bit). To get >8-bit material in in that precision, you need the codec to convert the material to 32-bit Y'CbCr.

jwcarney wrote on 8/31/2007, 9:50 AM

Bob, what about 3D motion tracking?
What I'm hoping for is the ability to render out short VFX shots from AE and pull them right into the timeline in V8Pro, without having to convert to 8bit codecs. AE is used in a lot of piplelines that don't involve Premier, now Vegas can be added.

One thing I'm interested in finding out is if, with 32bit per channel, pro level color grading can be done in Vegas. If so, that puts it ahead of FCP and Color, since it would be integrated into the app and no need for external rendering.

Only caveat, Vegas is still limited to 2Kx2K it seems, so it's up in the air about Red support.

Coursedesign wrote on 8/31/2007, 9:59 AM

Does FCP do 32 bit?

FCP supports 32-bit float both internally and for render output.

I think Vegas has got a long way to go before you could ditch using AE for most of the tricks he pulls of in AE.

Well, depends on what else is in V-8...

I guess we'll see.

Worst case, maybe the necessary support will be added in V8.01? :O)

Coursedesign wrote on 8/31/2007, 10:08 AM

FCP can be set to do 32-bit "YUV" processing.

In FCP, 10-bit video uses it automatically.

If you want to use it for 8-bit video, you need to set the "High Precision YUV" option.

From what I recall, it can't input R'G'B' sources with higher than 8-bit precision

FCP is a YUV NLE (:O), so I guess you're saying it doesn't have built-in RGB->YUV conversion (sprinkle apostrophes where desired) for more than 8-bit per channel data?

Where would this data come from?

apit34356 wrote on 8/31/2007, 10:27 AM

Farss, you are torturing me!!!! What trick did Stu do in AE that was quick?

GlennChan wrote on 8/31/2007, 11:19 AM

FCP does have a RGB --> Y'CbCr conversion. It's just that you don't get the full 10-bit bit depth out of certain types of RGB files... something like that. I don't use FCP enough to be able to tell you.

DGates wrote on 8/31/2007, 11:21 AM

(sprinkle apostrophes where desired)

= ]

Coursedesign wrote on 8/31/2007, 1:44 PM

I'm all for acuraccy, but enough is enough.

:O)

farss wrote on 8/31/2007, 3:15 PM

Farss, you are torturing me!!!! What trick did Stu do in AE that was quick?

Compositing squibs.
Compositing anything that involves heat (explosions, fire, muzzle flashes etc) requires more than just adding a layer of extra pixels to the background. In the real world the heat causes diffraction of light from the background, without simulating that the composite looks very fake. To get around this in AE he uses the luma (see Glenn I got it right) from one layer to drive blur of the background making it look realistic.
You could probably do this in Vegas too but it would take a bit of work.
I have another concern about this 32bit thing, what about the alpha channel? It's not unusual to use a 16bit alpha channel for compositing but at the moment Vegas seems to be having issues with even handling 8bit alpha correctly.

Bob.

Coursedesign wrote on 8/31/2007, 4:25 PM

I have another concern about this 32bit thing, what about the alpha channel?

V-8 will support a 32-bit alpha channel upon release, and V8.04 will even have a beta channel.

An NLE like.no.other.

farss wrote on 8/31/2007, 4:34 PM

Kool!
Good thing I upgraded my copy of PS.

I just realised last night I haven't jumped ship, I've gone from a monohull to a catamaran, does that metaphor work?

Bob.