What frame-size is handed to NEAT Video-- project or actual media res?

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 3/27/2024, 2:08 PM

I have a long-running question -- hoping someone here can clear things up. It's about how/when Vegas applies FX to a timeline with events that have mixed resolution, that won't all match project resolution.

Background:

  • Timeline -- mixed resolution footage; some events are HD and some from 4K media
  • Event Clip Noise -- majority is clean, some had to gain-up and are noisy
  • Project -- set to HD 1080 since that will be our final render format

Observation with Neat Video:

When I add Neat Video to my noisy 4K event it detects it as a 1080 video clip. This suggests to me that Vegas is applying the project (and/or Preview) scaling/processing BEFORE handing the video frame to the plug-in for analysis, and we lose the benefit of extra details in the source media when the FX are applied.

4 Questions:

  1. Is there a way for Neat Video to analyze and process the original 4K content, and not the 1080p scaled-down event? Since I have Neat clean AND sharpen my clip, this would seem to be far superior to doing it post-scaling.
     
  2. If I change my project to 4K then add the Neat plug-in, Neat reports it's a 4K clip. If I analyze and apply Neat while it's 4K, then change the project back to 1080p (or render 1080p), how does that affect the final image? Will it be applying the 4K profile and processing to a downscaled 1080 clip then, causing weird results?
     
  3. Is the answer different if the FX is applied before the Pan/Crop, vs after, in the FX chain?
     
  4. What does this imply for ALL FX applied to events? If I apply a Vegas Sharpen filter to a 4K media on a 1080 timeline, will it only have half the pixels to work with because it's scaling down the image to 1080 before applying the filter? How 'bout while rendering?

 

Last changed by RedRob-CandlelightProdctns

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

Comments

jetdv wrote on 3/27/2024, 2:34 PM

Should be...

Added left of Pan/Crop - media size

Added right of Pan/Crop - project size

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 3/27/2024, 2:43 PM

Should be...

Added left of Pan/Crop - media size

Added right of Pan/Crop - project size

Thanks for that Ed....And by "project size", that carries forward to "render size" too, yes? So for example, if the project is 1080p and I render to 720p -- if the FX is left of pan/crop it'll stay whatever be applied at the media size, right side the render 720p?


I confirmed that with the project set to 1080p, adding Neat to the LEFT of pan/crop, then doing auto-profile, it detects a 4K frame. Adding Neat to the RIGHT of pan/crop then doing auto-profile, it detects a 1080p frame.

Regardless of where it was added, if I change the project setting and then look at the Neat Video settings on a clip, it remains whatever it was at the time it was applied, even if I chose "adjust" as the option. Neat doesn't appear to re-read the project setting once it's applied.

Last changed by RedRob-CandlelightProdctns on 3/27/2024, 2:52 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

3POINT wrote on 3/27/2024, 3:54 PM

Question: does a noisy 4k clip show as many details as a normal 4k clip? My experience is that noisy 4k clips look even worse than normal 1080 clips.

UltraVista wrote on 3/27/2024, 8:38 PM

Thanks for that Ed....And by "project size", that carries forward to "render size" too, yes? So for example, if the project is 1080p and I render to 720p -- if the FX is left of pan/crop it'll stay whatever be applied at the media size, right side the render 720p?

That's a good question, when you choose a lower resolution such as 720p for render the GUI shows Vegas changing the project resolution to 720p, so does that mean Neat video is actually working on your source video at 720p, not 1080p or 4k?

 

UltraVista wrote on 3/27/2024, 8:52 PM

Question: does a noisy 4k clip show as many details as a normal 4k clip? My experience is that noisy 4k clips look even worse than normal 1080 clips.

Any noisy video will lack detail and have a reduced dynamic range making it look worse, with phone cams it looks like they can do a form of synthetic bin'ing of the sensor to reduce noise but it won't be real 4K. At 1080P the camera could use the same area of sensor used for 4K or even the entire sensor (some cameras will crop the sensor for higher resolutions/frame rates) It can gather a lot more information and use that to make a higher quality 1080P.

All cameras work differently, it was common to crop the sensor at 4K to reduce overheating but now it's more common to use more of the sensor and maybe use the same tricks for getting high quality 1080P

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 3/27/2024, 8:52 PM

Thanks for that Ed....And by "project size", that carries forward to "render size" too, yes? So for example, if the project is 1080p and I render to 720p -- if the FX is left of pan/crop it'll stay whatever be applied at the media size, right side the render 720p?

That's a good question, when you choose a lower resolution such as 720p for render the GUI shows Vegas changing the project resolution to 720p, so does that mean Neat video is actually working on your source video at 720p, not 1080p or 4k?

 

Because the Neat profile *appears* to retain whatever it finds when it first analyzes the frame, my belief is that whether Neat is left OR right, it'll be applying its algorithms based on that original analysis. Which means, to me, it may handle things suboptimal if the render resolution is different from when it was first applied to the event.

SO -- from now on in, I will *always* be applying Neat LEFT of the Pan/Crop before analyzing the frame so it works with source (media) resolution. At render time it won't matter what the target scaling is since the effect is applied pre-scale if it's left of pan/crop.

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 3/27/2024, 8:57 PM

Question: does a noisy 4k clip show as many details as a normal 4k clip? My experience is that noisy 4k clips look even worse than normal 1080 clips.

The clips I'm currently working on are from Wide-shot 4K footage that sadly didn't have as sharp a focus as I wished, and which we sometimes had to push in 2x . Applying sharpening emphasized the noise, so I applied Neat Video first to the 4K clip, with Temporal sharpening, then added a Vegas sharpen filter. The result? Pretty stunning and clear wide-cam footage!

I've found Neat does a good job with 4K just as it does with 1080, and its own Sharpen-non-noisy-areas does a fantastic job preserving details in my clips.

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

UltraVista wrote on 3/27/2024, 9:03 PM

Thanks for that Ed....And by "project size", that carries forward to "render size" too, yes? So for example, if the project is 1080p and I render to 720p -- if the FX is left of pan/crop it'll stay whatever be applied at the media size, right side the render 720p?

That's a good question, when you choose a lower resolution such as 720p for render the GUI shows Vegas changing the project resolution to 720p, so does that mean Neat video is actually working on your source video at 720p, not 1080p or 4k?

 

Because the Neat profile *appears* to retain whatever it finds when it first analyzes the frame, my belief is that whether Neat is left OR right, it'll be applying its algorithms based on that original analysis. Which means, to me, it may handle things suboptimal if the render resolution is different from when it was first applied to the event.

You could also try Voukoder , when you render it won't change project resolution, if you want a lower render resolution use one of the switches in Voukoder to choose the resolution you like. This will be a slower process. You could then compare the results

jetdv wrote on 3/28/2024, 8:31 AM

Should be...

Added left of Pan/Crop - media size

Added right of Pan/Crop - project size

Thanks for that Ed....And by "project size", that carries forward to "render size" too, yes? So for example, if the project is 1080p and I render to 720p -- if the FX is left of pan/crop it'll stay whatever be applied at the media size, right side the render 720p?


I confirmed that with the project set to 1080p, adding Neat to the LEFT of pan/crop, then doing auto-profile, it detects a 4K frame. Adding Neat to the RIGHT of pan/crop then doing auto-profile, it detects a 1080p frame.

Regardless of where it was added, if I change the project setting and then look at the Neat Video settings on a clip, it remains whatever it was at the time it was applied, even if I chose "adjust" as the option. Neat doesn't appear to re-read the project setting once it's applied.

My assumption:

Left of Pan/Crop will always be Media size

Right of Pan/Crop will always be Project size

Render has nothing to do with anything. If you're rendering to a smaller size, VEGAS will then take the modified Project frame and reduce the size to the render size but the effect would still work at the Project size if right of Pan/Crop.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 3/28/2024, 11:25 AM

 

My assumption:

Left of Pan/Crop will always be Media size

Right of Pan/Crop will always be Project size

Render has nothing to do with anything. If you're rendering to a smaller size, VEGAS will then take the modified Project frame and reduce the size to the render size but the effect would still work at the Project size if right of Pan/Crop.

My assumption:

Same as what you wrote EXCEPT I assume at render time, it overrides the project frame size with whatever the render settings are, and that FX applied Right of Pan/Crop will be applied to the new Render size. If so, FX that do some computations (and cache some processing) when they are first built -- tracking, many BorisFX, Neat Video -- may not apply properly if the frame is different from when they cached their data. (thus my NEW decision to always apply those effects LEFT of Pan/Crop)

I don't like "assumptions" ;-) (thus this post)... is @VEGASDerek still on here? Can someone from the Vegas team shed light on exactly what's going on here? (well, don't need the source-code level of "exact" ;-) )

Last changed by EricLNZ on 3/28/2024, 5:47 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Reason: Added link

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

UltraVista wrote on 3/28/2024, 5:53 PM

Same as what you wrote EXCEPT I assume at render time, it overrides the project frame size with whatever the render settings are

That's why I told you to try voukoder, it doesn't change project resolution, but you'd also have to have a suitable project that poorly reacts to scaling. The question is do we believe Vegas when it shows project resolution changing to the same as render resolution, is it as if you went into project properties and changed it to render resolution or not.

Robert Johnston wrote on 3/28/2024, 11:58 PM

Help has a nice flowchart for the video signal.

https://help.magix-hub.com/video/vegas/21/en/content/topics/vidsignalflow.htm?skinName=Dark

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 6/6/2024, 7:59 PM

My assumption:

Left of Pan/Crop will always be Media size

Right of Pan/Crop will always be Project size

Render has nothing to do with anything. If you're rendering to a smaller size, VEGAS will then take the modified Project frame and reduce the size to the render size but the effect would still work at the Project size if right of Pan/Crop.

So -- this rule of thumb has been working STELLAR for me since we had this thread.

I always move Neat Video to the left of Pan/Crop before profiling my clip, and it properly is detecting 4K media on 1080 timelines. AMAZING!

Until today.

Today, in my 1080p59.94 project, when I add a Neat Video effect to my 4K event, and move it to the left of Pan/Crop before analyzing the frame -- it's detecting it as a 1080p (1920x1080) clip instead of 4K.

ARRRRRHHHHHHHHHG!

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

zzzzzz9125 wrote on 6/6/2024, 8:53 PM

@RedRob-CandlelightProdctns Maybe you could try using Media FX? Unlike Event FX, Media FX should always use the original resolution of the media.

Using VEGAS Pro 22 build 194 & VEGAS Pro 21 build 208.

Information about my PC:
Brand Name: HP VICTUS Laptop
System: Windows 11.0 (64-bit) 10.00.22631
CPU: 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700H
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Laptop GPU
GPU Driver: NVIDIA Studio Driver 560.70

mark-y wrote on 6/6/2024, 9:02 PM

I agree that the safest and most sensible place to add Neat Video is at the Project Media level, not the track or event level.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 6/6/2024, 9:17 PM

Applying Neat Video at the Media level I really don't think is a grand idea... here's why:

  1. Neat Video works by analyzing noise in a frame. Because these are stage productions, the lighting conditions vary dramatically, and a great majority of the clips do NOT require noise reduction. Applying generically to the media:
    1. Will needlessly try to reduce non-noisy frames
    2. Will dramatically increase the overall render time
       
  2. It didn't matter ;-) I just tried it.

    Adding it to the media and clicking "Prepare Noise Profile" gives an information box reading: "You have not selected a frame within the clip before opening Neat Video window. Frames from the beginning of the clip will be used." Clicking OK, then "Prepare Nosie Profile" works, but it still sees it as a 1080p clip (1920x1080), not the 4K media it actually is.

 

SO -- it seems Neat Video is always taking the resolution from the Project Settings, but the Interlace and possibly framerate settings from the media.

My Media is definitely 4K (Format; MP4 v2-AVC Attributes 3840x2160x32, frame rate 29.97)
Neat Video thinks it is 1920x1080 unless I change the project properties and then it will think it's whatever those properties are set to.

:(

I thought this was worked out... and now it's back to square one!

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 6/6/2024, 9:20 PM

This isn't really addressed in the "video signal" flowchart posted above (which IS helpful, I don't think it applies here)

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

zzzzzz9125 wrote on 6/6/2024, 10:02 PM

Applying Neat Video at the Media level I really don't think is a grand idea... here's why:

  1. Neat Video works by analyzing noise in a frame. Because these are stage productions, the lighting conditions vary dramatically, and a great majority of the clips do NOT require noise reduction. Applying generically to the media:
    1. Will needlessly try to reduce non-noisy frames
    2. Will dramatically increase the overall render time

In response to this, you can create a subclip of the trimmed event first, and then apply the media FX to that subclip. This only affects the content of this clip and doesn't disturb other clips.

I don't have a Neat Video though, so I'm not sure how it works...

Last changed by zzzzzz9125 on 6/6/2024, 10:09 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Using VEGAS Pro 22 build 194 & VEGAS Pro 21 build 208.

Information about my PC:
Brand Name: HP VICTUS Laptop
System: Windows 11.0 (64-bit) 10.00.22631
CPU: 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700H
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Laptop GPU
GPU Driver: NVIDIA Studio Driver 560.70

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 6/6/2024, 10:49 PM

Applying Neat Video at the Media level I really don't think is a grand idea... here's why:

  1. Neat Video works by analyzing noise in a frame. Because these are stage productions, the lighting conditions vary dramatically, and a great majority of the clips do NOT require noise reduction. Applying generically to the media:
    1. Will needlessly try to reduce non-noisy frames
    2. Will dramatically increase the overall render time

In response to this, you can create a subclip of the trimmed event first, and then apply the media FX to that subclip. This only affects the content of this clip and doesn't disturb other clips.

I don't have a Neat Video though, so I'm not sure how it works...

Yip. I sometimes use that technique when I want a particular event *not* to have the media-level FX applied to it.

In this case, how is that any better than applying it to the event itself, left of the Pan/Crop?

It seems when the "Noise Profile" is built for Neat Video, it uses whatever the Preview properties are, and then it saves that. So it's still necessary to change the project properties before having it figure out the noise profile, then changing it back after it's setup. Whether Neat Video is applied to the media-level or left of Pan/Crop has no effect on what it's detecting -- only the project properties.

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

mark-y wrote on 6/6/2024, 11:10 PM

Applying Neat Video at the Media level I really don't think is a grand idea...

In many tests over the years, I have come to the conclusion that kernel-level filters, including Neat, are almost always better applied to the source media than at a level that has been mediated by any other processing. I've confirmed my visual impressions with various RQM measurement tools.

In your situation, where you say you only want NR on certain scenes, applying it at the Event Level, pre-Pan/Crop and pre-Everything Else, will accomplish the same thing, that of working with your pristine pixels rather than with processed pseudorandom grain. This technique assumes you have not applied any other effects to the Project Media or Track Levels. This is important to me.

Looking farther forward, I have tested AI upscaling, sharpening, and noise reduction at the various levels with both stills and motion video applications, and come to exactly the same conclusion.

Given a recurring desire to apply both a kernel level filter (Unsharp Mask) and AI Upscale at the Media level, I almost always apply the kernel-level filter first.

RedRob-CandlelightProdctns wrote on 6/6/2024, 11:14 PM

Applying Neat Video at the Media level I really don't think is a grand idea...

In many tests over the years, I have come to the conclusion that kernel-level filters, including Neat, are almost always better at the media than at a level that has been mediated by processing. I've confirmed my visual impressions with various RQM measurements.

In your situation, where you say you only want NR on certain scenes, applying it at the Event Level, pre-pan/crop and pre-everything else, will accomplish the same thing, that of working with your pristine, rather than processed source.

Looking forward, I have tested AI upscaling, sharpening, and noise reduction at the various levels with both stills and motion video, and come to exactly same conclusion.

Given a recurring desire to apply both a kernel level filter (Unsharp Mask) and AI Upscale at the Media level, I almost always apply the kernel filter first.

What have you found most successful in your AI Upscaling efforts?

I tried the well-self-proclaimed Topaz twice.. both times it was unfathomably slow with only so-so results as compared to other tools, so I never implemented it for our needs.

Vegas 21.300

My PC (for finishing):

Cyperpower PC Intel Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.2GHz, 64GB mem @ 2133MHz RAM, AMD Radeon RX470 (4GB dedicated) with driver recommended by Vegas Updater (reports as 30.0.15021.11005 dated 4/28/22), and Intel HD Graphics 630 driver version 31.0.101.2112 dated 7/21/22 w/16GB shared memory. Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 10.0.19045 Build 19045.

My main editing laptop:

Dell G15 Special Edition 5521, Bios 1.12 9/13/22, Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621)

12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700H (14 cores, 20 logical processors), 32 GB DDR5 4800MHz RAM, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU w/8GB GDDR6 RAM, Realtek Audio

 

 

mark-y wrote on 6/6/2024, 11:31 PM

The hierarchy of processing levels from the bottom up is:

  • Project Media Level
  • Track Level
  • Event Level
  • Preview Level, also called the Output Bus.
mark-y wrote on 6/6/2024, 11:41 PM

Topaz Video AI is ungodly slow. I never bought it, but I may try the newest trial. In my tests, I found it slightly better for upscaling high-motion scenes than Vegas, and I found Vegas slightly better with static detail.