What is going on now with Vegas?

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/9/2018, 11:20 AM

Another issue that keeps me from committing to Vegas Pro:

I've been testing the abilities of Vegas Pro to edit 4K UHD footage. So I decided to download some 24p footage, convert the videos to Cineform UHD format in Resolve and drop the two videos on to the timeline. As you can see I've resized the clips on each track to run side by side. I set Vegas to auto generate proxy files. I applied at the clip level a different LUT to each clip. The preview window is set to Preview Full to allow the generated proxy's to be activated for editing. Nothing else done to the clips and this is what I end up getting as I sat recording it with my cel phone to provide a visual clue:

The original clips were converted to ProRes 4444 and are huge in size hence my converting to Cineform. Those original clips also cause the same issue.

Is my GTX-660ti 2GB graphics card finally showing it's age or is this an issue within Vegas itself? I've gotten the same issue in both VP14 and the trial of VP15 - albeit VP15 the timeline plays full 24p frame rate while VP14 is varies between 18-21fps.

It doesn't matter if the LUT's are applied or not, this glitch happens after about 2/3 of the way through the test timeline. I've shut down each version of Vegas, and opened back up - this issue is random and doesn't necessarily happen at the same spot in the timeline.

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/9/2018, 11:36 AM

I do not understand what editing approach this tend to be - PiP effects? I edit UHD 4K footage now for some years, but without such side-by-side approaches. For some type like XAVC I the playback behavior is not so great, even on a more powerful system compared with yours (8core, R9 390X with 8GB). Maybe a difference is also that I tend to use Filmconvert instead LUTs to convert to rec709 foley. But it is possible to edit UHD footage, and up to now I have not seen such an issue.

So I wonder what it is. Would be great to have a test project file for that issue.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/9/2018, 11:36 AM

Could be this but I think it only affects AMD cards.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/9/2018, 11:48 AM

But then I should be able to repro that with my AMD Card.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/9/2018, 11:50 AM

But then I should be able to repro that with my AMD Card.


Maybe it has been resolved in VP15? I still see it in SVP13 because that is what I use daily, I haven't tested VP14 yet.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/9/2018, 12:04 PM

Both versions exhibit this - but it's random, and TBH, worse in VP15 trial. I first noticed this playing back a single full screen clip and didn't think twice about it. But this blatantly shows something under the hood that is hit and miss for some users, yet doesn't affect others. Just when I think I've got it figured out, something like this come sup and I'm back to square one.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/9/2018, 12:07 PM

Maybe. Or maybe it is a hardware issue. Because I wonder if Cliffs hardware is powerful enough to edit such a complex and power demanding project (two UHD streams that has to be rescaled and two LUTs)? Or if it is a bug. That is why it would make sense to test that on other machines too.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/9/2018, 1:00 PM

Well, Cliff’s hardware is certainly special but I believe he recently purchased a new 8700k based system? I can only test it in VP14 and will do so later.

Last changed by OldSmoke on 5/9/2018, 1:17 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/9/2018, 1:05 PM

Well, Clif’s hardware is certainly special but I believe he recently purchased a new 8700k based system? I can only test it in VP14 and will do so later.

Yes - I recently updated to the i8700K, ASUS Z370-H motherboard and 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM. The graphics card upgrade is still being decided and is to be had later this month (My tick boxes are pointing to the GTX-1060 6GB card right now).

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/10/2018, 2:10 AM

So still no example project to reproduce that issue. Ok.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 2:05 PM

So still no example project to reproduce that issue. Ok.

I'm neck deep in two projects that are in the final stages of revision edits. I'm unfortunately having to wrestle with Premiere Pro CS6 due to the performance and stability issues in Vegas 14 with these short videos. Will get something put together when I have some free time 🙂

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 4:06 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

OldSmoke wrote on 5/10/2018, 4:13 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

I personally would still buy an AMD card even for VP15 unless a user really needs fast NVENC rendering. I still fell that AMD's implementation/support of OpenCL is better compared to Nvidia. AMD's drivers have greatly improved over the past years and are on par with Nvidia in terms of reliability.

The animated titles in Vegas are power hungry and I am not sure if the even GPU accelerated but I think not.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Vliegvisser wrote on 5/10/2018, 4:16 PM

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all?

There are more than 1 type of titler in VPro, which one you're pointing at?

BruceUSA wrote on 5/10/2018, 5:14 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

I don' know animated title is gpu accl or not. I would have check, am not at the computer at the movement. However, i have always seen my animated title playback on timeline smooth full framerate.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 8:27 PM

@Vliegvisser This title generator in Vegas Pro

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 8:30 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

I personally would still buy an AMD card even for VP15 unless a user really needs fast NVENC rendering. I still fell that AMD's implementation/support of OpenCL is better compared to Nvidia. AMD's drivers have greatly improved over the past years and are on par with Nvidia in terms of reliability.

The animated titles in Vegas are power hungry and I am not sure if the even GPU accelerated but I think not.

@OldSmoke But it sounds like I should still avoid the RX480's and RX580's and stick to finding an R9 290 or 390 in 8GB??? I've read the R9's run pretty hot and require more power compared to newer cards from AMD and nVidia... Or am I mistaken?

OldSmoke wrote on 5/10/2018, 8:52 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

I personally would still buy an AMD card even for VP15 unless a user really needs fast NVENC rendering. I still fell that AMD's implementation/support of OpenCL is better compared to Nvidia. AMD's drivers have greatly improved over the past years and are on par with Nvidia in terms of reliability.

The animated titles in Vegas are power hungry and I am not sure if the even GPU accelerated but I think not.

@OldSmoke But it sounds like I should still avoid the RX480's and RX580's and stick to finding an R9 290 or 390 in 8GB??? I've read the R9's run pretty hot and require more power compared to newer cards from AMD and nVidia... Or am I mistaken?

In such a case eBay is your best friend. A R9 290X 8GB would do you fine, provided you have a good power supply and I doubt a 390X is noticeable better. 480X should fine, for 580X there where initial problems in VP15 if I recall that correctly. AMD Fury-X are selling below $500 on eBay. What kind of power supply do you have in your new build? Did you build it yourself?

Last changed by OldSmoke on 5/10/2018, 8:53 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 9:02 PM

As a follow up: I finished the latest edit revisions in Premiere CS6 for both clients 😒

Reran the the problem 4K project in both Vegas 14 and Vegas 15 trial - now the random glitch is gone... My only thought is my graphics card needs to be replaced.

Another question: The animated title graphics that come in Vegas - they bring my timeline playback to less than 8 fps on preview full mode with this project (I had auto proxy files enabled for this UHD project) =- same thing happens when editing a 1080p project.

Are the titles GPU accelerated at all? If so, my only thought is that they are OpenCL accelerated??? @NickHope? @BruceUSA@OldSmoke?

I personally would still buy an AMD card even for VP15 unless a user really needs fast NVENC rendering. I still fell that AMD's implementation/support of OpenCL is better compared to Nvidia. AMD's drivers have greatly improved over the past years and are on par with Nvidia in terms of reliability.

The animated titles in Vegas are power hungry and I am not sure if the even GPU accelerated but I think not.

@OldSmoke But it sounds like I should still avoid the RX480's and RX580's and stick to finding an R9 290 or 390 in 8GB??? I've read the R9's run pretty hot and require more power compared to newer cards from AMD and nVidia... Or am I mistaken?

In such a case eBay is your best friend. A R9 290X 8GB would do you fine, provided you have a good power supply and I doubt a 390X is noticeable better. 480X should fine, for 580X there where initial problems in VP15 if I recall that correctly. AMD Fury-X are selling below $500 on eBay. What kind of power supply do you have in your new build? Did you build it yourself?

Yes - built myself - I have a Corsair 750w gold power supply

BruceUSA wrote on 5/10/2018, 11:28 PM

Vegas animated text is indeed a gpu accelerated in play back on theTL. I tested Vegas default text and fly in from right, both shown GPU load.

R9 290/290X/390X/fury X . These are good choice for current Vegas. VP15, SONY AVC and MAGIX AVC MP4 both of this encoder used gpu on my R9 290X in render. I don't know any one know it or not.

 

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/10/2018, 11:58 PM

Seems my hunch is correct then and an AMD card is preferred for both RT timeline playback and animated title graphics... Now I'm looking at the RX470 or 480 8GB card unless there is a very compelling reason to go with the older R9 cards...