What other NLE would or do you use

Editguy43 wrote on 10/24/2009, 11:27 PM
If you had to stop using Vegas for some unknown reason what other NLE would fill the void, or what other editing software do you use in conjunction with the great editing software that we all use and love.

I ask this question because I might be needing some other NLE to supplement my Vegas..

Paul B


Marc S wrote on 10/24/2009, 11:36 PM
I don't own an Apple but would probably learn Final Cut because of it's market acceptance. It also seems like a decent editor.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 10/24/2009, 11:59 PM
I'm hard pressed to find something Vegas won't do. (anything I actually need to do that is). If I needed to use a different NLE because it was required to interface with other editors I'd use whatever was necessary. If I had to switch to get a specific job I'd use what the job required.

I can't answer your question because "for some unknown reason" just doesn't make sense to me.

<edit> There's another way to ask / answer the question and it would be "if Vegas didn't exist what would you use"; but you've said "I might be needing some other NLE to supplement Vegas" - the Q there is why do you need something else? Let that "why" guide you to answer the question. For example, if it's because "my prospective employer doesn't use Vegas" then you'd use whatever the employer uses.

If the answer is "I just want to learn something else" I think that's commendable. I'd pull down trials for Premiere, Avid, Edius. FCP if you have a Mac. Pick some footage from a project you've already done in Vegas and cut the same scene in all these NLEs. Personally, I think most NLEs will have from 1 to a small number of things they do better than Vegas. But I think they all pale in comparison when you compare the whole package. If you do what I've suggested, I'll wager you'll come to the conclusion of "WHY is it so complicated in the other programs???"
ushere wrote on 10/25/2009, 12:07 AM
i agree with david - what more do you want? ;-)

true, there's a plethora of other video software around - after effects, combustion, etc., that far exceed anything vegas can do, but they're not nle's per se.

the one thing (i don't have to worry about nowadays thankfully) is collaboration. if i was going to have to conform to an industry standard then it would be either fcp or avid. however, i'm not sure any more whether either of them has a definitive lead.

in the old days all the studios i worked with / for had avid.

but now i have vegas, so what else do i need?

(shall i list it here?)
DGates wrote on 10/25/2009, 12:07 AM
Final Cut, maybe Premiere.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 10/25/2009, 12:31 AM
Was going to edit my original reply again and decided to just post another one.

You could also take a "best of breed" approach; you might look at Adobe Encore for DVD authoring if you wanted great photoshop integration; possibly Canopus Pro Coder for mpeg-2 encoding of DVD files (supposed to be better than Vegas' Main Concept but I don't know). And certainly After Effects or Boris Red for compositing and other things Vegas just cannot do.
DGates wrote on 10/25/2009, 1:25 AM
That's a good point, David. No NLE is the 'best' at everything.

I wish Encore was still a standalone product. But you can't buy it that way anymore. You have to buy it bundled with Premiere now to get it.
farss wrote on 10/25/2009, 2:13 AM
If Vegas didn't exist I'd still be using Ppro. There's still many things in it I prefer to Vegas but as other have said they all get the job done. I was somewhat surprised how much audio work I could get done in Ppro with a recent project that I had to do in Ppro. Despite what I'd been told you can get Ppro to playout while you tweak audio plugs, you've just got to find the magic button!
All of which just goes to show, they're all pretty good once you spend the time to really learn them.
Best add on for Vegas is After Effects.
Other NLE I've always liked the look of is Edius.

Former user wrote on 10/25/2009, 6:58 AM
Encore is a decent DVD authoring program, but DVDA is more powerful. Encore does not support scripting (such as accessing GPRMS and SPRMS).

Dave T2
CorTed wrote on 10/25/2009, 9:10 AM
I love using AE along with Vegas.
I also have Ppro, and have payed with it. Eventhough I am more at ease at using Vegas and like it better for various reasons, Premier has this GREAT advantage to interact with AE with such ease that for that reason I would pick Ppro.

Coursedesign wrote on 10/25/2009, 11:34 AM
FCP or Avid for collaboration, After Effects for opening a whole new world.

But for editing on the go, nothing beats ReelDirector, the absolute #1 best NLE of its kind.
Byron K wrote on 10/25/2009, 12:18 PM

Just curious what features do you need that Vegas dosen't provide?

Editguy43 wrote on 10/25/2009, 7:45 PM
I posted question for a couple of reasons. One thing, Vegas users dont get alot of respect by others who use one of the big A's.

I recently worked with an Assistant director from 'Hollywood" on a project for a local film festival and he really poo pooed my using Vegas. "I never heard if it" he said, perhaps the truth perhaps not. I did not let that bother me but it is a concern for me.

I have used Vegas for most of my work, since Studio version 6 and 8Pro 1 year ago and have loved using it, I have played with Avid and Ppro and found them hard to use in some respects to Vegas.

One thing Bryon K that is bothering me with vegas on a project right now is slow motion when I ry to slow a clip down it gets all choppy and the audio gets distorted, I tried the same thing in Ppro and it was all very smooth. Perhaps something I am missing but I am not sure.

I want to get into bigger projects in the future and will need colaberation with others and unless Vegas gets more capable with that then I fear that I will need another NLE that is capable of it.

That is why I am asking, for 99 percent of what I do right now Vegas it almost perfect and I will continue to use it for a long time.

I thank you all for your posts and have learned much.

Paul B
Coursedesign wrote on 10/25/2009, 8:08 PM
Premiere Pro is a clunky NLE, I am yet to hear from any really happy users.

It has Optical Flow though (as do Final Cut Studio and Avid Media Composer), which allows it to synthesize frames for not just high quality slo-mo but for many other things.

As a Vegas user, you can get Optical Flow in Boris or After Effects. Money and time to learn.

As for NLE snobs, you could look in this forum for the names of some famous broadcast users mentioned here, and also point out that Vegas sometimes lets you do in seconds what takes minutes in other NLEs, and that it has incredible audio handling that is vastly superior to what's in FCS or Avid MC or any other NLE.

Avid is not easy to learn initially, because of the different (um, "industry standard") user interface paradigm. The best way to learn it is to take their 5-day live training.

If you need to actually learn FCP or Avid, contact me offline and I'll point you to the quickest and least expensive ways to learn them.

To learn After Effects, just pick up a copy of "After Effects Apprentice" by Trish and Chris Meyer. This is one of the absolute best training books in *any* subject, and it blows the doors off all other titles I have ever seen (and videos too).
Laurence wrote on 10/25/2009, 8:50 PM
I have no desire to work with any other NLE. I am just too dependant, not only on the excellent workflow of Vegas, but on scripts like Ultimate-S and Excalibur.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 10/25/2009, 9:08 PM
"Premiere Pro is a clunky NLE, I am yet to hear from any really happy users"

I think that this is a bit of an exaggeration. I use both PP and Vegas, but left to myself, I stick with Vegas, since to me, the user interface is more intuitive. PP has some major advantages over Vegas, including that it's part of a software suite (which includes Photoshop and After Effects), it has far more 3rd party plugins, etc. and since the user base is larger, there are more tutorials and help available online. Those three items almost cancel out the fact that Vegas is easier to use.
Coursedesign wrote on 10/25/2009, 10:57 PM
What you are saying about PP is true, but it doesn't change the fact that it is clunky.

Clunky with a large eco system around it, but FCP has an even bigger eco system without being clunky, and even Avid is part of a fairly large universe, without being clunky (if you learn the Avid way of doing things).

As Adobe is moving everything to 64-bit (they have already stated that AE CS5 will be 64-bit only), I would find it hard to believe that they would preserve ye olde PP code base. I really suspect they will write a completely new NLE, which may also provide some serious competition for the upcoming 64-bit FCP8 next year, as PP CS5 will of course be dual platform like the current PP.

The only situation where I would recommend someone to use PP today would be for a Mac user who wanted to roundtrip from FCP to AE "by reference" without using Automatic Duck.

Automatic Duck is still far superior (it handles way more editing bits), but it is $495.00, whereas PP is most often "free" as part of some suite where the customer really only wanted the other parts.

Editguy43 wrote on 10/26/2009, 10:04 AM
"I have no desire to work with any other NLE. I am just too dependant, not only on the excellent workflow of Vegas, but on scripts like Ultimate-S and Excalibur"

I to love scripts they have saved me allot of extra keystrokes and time since I started using them. Also since the trimmer has improved I find myself using it more often, I still find that timeline editing is faster in Vegas then any other NLE I have tried.

I have an Avid of sorts it is "Avid Liquid" and I tried to use it, really difficult the diehard Liquid fanboys say it is the best thing ever and say that Vegas is no good. I came to vegas because liquid was so hard to use.
I also have Pinnacle Studio 12 we started with 7 long ago and had stabioity trouble for all 12 seems more stable, we only use it for slideshows now, after having multiple tracks I can no longer edit any video in it.

Overall I still find Vegas easy to use, even some say it is hard to learn I found it quite easy to get up and running with, I still have a lot to learn to become more efficient with it.
that is why I love this forum there are many willing to help at all times and I have learned many new things here.

I think if i ever win the lottery I will try FCP just to say "oh yes I use Final Cut" and then edit the stuff in vegas :-)

One thing I do wish is that Vegas would support more hardware and have more ways to communicate with other software and make thier own type of AE software that would be Great...

Paul B
Former user wrote on 10/26/2009, 11:29 AM
I find it is good to have access to an many NLEs as you can. I know financially sometimes this is not possible. I say this not because you need to use all of them or one is better than the other.

I have found that when I learn a new NLE, I also learn a new way to doing something that either I haven't thought of before, or is just a simpler way of doing it.

I try to use Vegas for most of my personal projects, but my real job uses Final Cut and Avid. By mixing my knowledge of the three different NLEs, I have learned to get the best out of each of them. If I had only learned one, then it would be like being on a train with one track and no switches. I would only learn to do things in one direction. By using other NLEs, I can switch tracks and follow other paths to reach the same destination.

My two cents worth.

Dave T2
Coursedesign wrote on 10/26/2009, 11:30 AM
What other NLE would or do you use?

Well, Sony just made their choice for what to promote at the HD Expo in Burbank next week:

Former user wrote on 10/27/2009, 12:44 AM
CorTed wrote:
> I love using AE along with Vegas.

I'm in the same boat. Most of my compositing I do in AE, and then render lossless PNG to Vegas. It's a great combination. And like Ted, I would likely move to PPro simply because it's in my Adobe bundle. That said, right now you couldn't pay me to touch another NLE. Vegas does everything I need, and doing project work in my own environment means I get to pick what works best for me (and Vegas definitely fits that bill).
levijudah wrote on 10/27/2009, 9:37 AM
This has been a question for me also. I have been looking to add more firepower to my final product and have been considering AE and Photoshop in conjunction with my VegPro9 for a greater visual pallett. I just was not sure of the product capabilities of AE. I didn't even realize video media could be manipulated in AE. Now I'm wondering if AE is just overkill.?
Former user wrote on 10/27/2009, 9:39 AM
The power in AE are the available plugins. There are plugins for almost any imaginable effect. As an editor, it is horrendous, but compositing and effects are it's strengths.

Dave T2
Guy S. wrote on 10/27/2009, 10:14 AM
We have FCP, Prem Pro and Vegas.

I occasionally - but very rarely - use Prem Pro.
I never use FCP.

I was very excited to get FCP, but for my purposes (training and promo videos) it made easy things difficult to do.

I liked Prem Pro's interface and was looking forward to its real time editing capabilities, but the reality failed to match the hype. And, like FCP, it also made many of the simple things that I do needlessly difficult.

Coursedesign wrote on 10/27/2009, 11:10 AM
PP's Dynamic Link to AE also doesn't work as well in practice as it does in Adobe's tour demonstrations.

Moving from or to Vegas is a challenge because the editing paradigm is different.

Other NLEs use the "industry standard" paradigm.

Contrary to popular belief here, that paradigm isn't always worse than Vegas' multitrack DAW paradigm

Still, for a lot of editors a lot of the time, Vegas is much faster to work with.

So that leaves only the cases where Vegas is 100% unable to do what needs to be done, which happens frequently when you need to work with other post people.

That means some people need to use multiple NLEs whether they want it or not.

Even FCP and Avid editors sometimes have to learn "the other NLE" too for that reason.