What Sonic Foundry Owes to CD Architect Users

RixWare wrote on 3/11/2001, 3:10 PM

Dear Sonic Foundry,

Having just installed a new 12x CD-RW drive, I discovered
that CD Architect is no more. That's a real shame, and
greatly frustrating, because it is truly the only program
of its type out there (I've been searching now for about 48
hours for something comparable -- or even close -- with no
luck).

Numerous professionals rely upon your program because it is
powerful and very easy and quick to use (like your other
software). I am one such professional who has used CD
Architect to create masters on about a dozen projects for
paying clients over the last two years.

But since you have decided to abandon this wonderful
product, please do not leave us hanging. You owe your loyal
users a couple of things:

1) Create one last legacy upgrade which will ensure
detection of and compatibility with MMC-compliant drives.
This will allow many newly-introduced drives to be
recognized and used without further development on your
part.

2) Create an interface and/or publish specifications so
that third parties (or manufacturers) may begin writing
drivers for other new non-MMC writers as they become
available.

3) Publish a detailed description of the CDP and/or CD
Image file formats so that conversion utilities may be
properly written by third parties to allow other burning
software to utilize project files created by CD Architect.

4) In lieu of the above, provide detailed help in the FAQ
on using CD Architect to create projects which can then be
burned by other commercially-available burning software.

Finally, if you are going to replace CD Architect in your
product line with a new CD-creation tool (as hinted at in
one message), announce it now and let us help beta-test it.
You may save some customers that way.

As you can tell from reading messages on this board, there
is a devoted group of users who want to continue to use
this product, and will do so by any means. And the number
of those who become angry and frustrated with Sonic Foundry
is only going to grow as more people replace 1x and 2x
drives with 12x and 16x drives. It is in your best interest
to satisfy the users you have orphaned.

Thank you for your consideration.

Rick Prescott
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Comments

Jay J wrote on 7/30/2001, 8:16 PM

I have been reading many posts about the discontinuation of CD Architect, as well, I am extremely displeased with the fact that support of CD-Architect has been discontinued.

I was extremely suprised to see a new version of Batch Converter, this to me seems useless, although someone, I expect, did some financial justification for it's development. The same I expect was done to kill support of CDA.

I happen to agree with Sonic Foundries choice not to continue development of CDA for practical purposes. 16-Bit is all that is necessary today, High Definition Audio, DVD Audio, etc.... the market has yet to establish a new standard and chasing this would be extremely ineffective. For folks mastering CD's, justification of anything higher than 8x burn speeds, in my opion makes no sense from a time standpoint (unless you can't purchase an older burner that is supported).

I expect that the folks at SF see what is being written, I don't expect they are going to write about their development plans where the market could use this against them.

Based on the type of applications having been developed in the past, I would expect that SF will come out with a killer app that incorporates all new technologies along with CDR in a standalone application (possibly DVD write capable) when the price point for mastering DVD Burns falls below $1000, and the general DVD burners drop below $300.

Just My Opinion.

jerbecca wrote on 9/24/2001, 10:17 PM

Sure do miss CDA!

(With 25 replies and counting, I just had to keep this post alive.) :-)

Jeremy

Dogfur wrote on 9/25/2001, 5:15 AM

I think that SF can just kiss my ass for abandoning their expensive product, and there are other companies that will do business in a better fashion. It is their job, that's why you pay them, and it goes to show what they will do down the road if you buy a product that has potential to become antiquated. How long until SF 5.0 won't be supported?

dcomo wrote on 9/29/2001, 1:56 PM

Since we have been over this and over this again many of times, it seems that
they are still not willing to listen to all of the faithful CDA users. Just today
in the mail I recieved a brochure from SF and the CEO of the company is
Rimas Buinevicius. Now, I would imagine that if we send him mail demanding that
we want CDA back, he may listen...

Now, I am not posting this for all of you users out there is spam Rimas and
annoy him. These are not what my intentions are. I am just saying that it
may be a good idea to get messages to him since he may not know what type
of demand CDA is pulling.

If anyone agrees with this please post and lets see what we can do.

CopyRon wrote on 10/14/2001, 2:56 PM

Would love to have it back.
Ron

EVPro wrote on 10/17/2001, 8:49 PM

I would like to add my name to this list of professionals who have depended on CD Architect since it came out. I won't repeat things said in earlier messages, but agree completely. Bring it Back!

RixWare wrote on 11/14/2001, 10:13 AM

CD Architect lovers everywhere: Sonic Foundry has added CD-A functionality to Vegas Video! A public beta version is available for download on this site, and I'm happy to report that it opened my old CDP files with no problem.

With only a quick look, it appears that all of the old functionality is there plus some new things. Be sure to check it out!

Ain't life grand...

+

Sneddy wrote on 11/14/2001, 4:14 PM

I agree with Rick. I too use CDA(along with ACID 3.0c)
professionally and am addicted to it - it's extraordinary!! Charge us a fee if you wish to keep us going and UPGRADED with CDA! It will payoff in loyalty and in future product purchases by us. Bob Kroeger (Bobkroeger@aol.com)

BrianBC wrote on 11/15/2001, 10:04 PM

CDA was the most elegant audio CD burning program out there, unfortunately I can't use it anymore since I upgraded to Win2K it can't see my CD burner. Great. Wish I could buy a whole new version that did such a good job and that would recognise my older CDA files as well.

TheMiracle wrote on 11/20/2001, 12:24 PM

Why Do Not You Just Buy The Wave Lab 3.04

tunafish wrote on 1/27/2002, 11:16 PM

A word about Vegas 3.0. I am a CDA user who was forced to uprade to Vegas 3.0 when my 8X SCSI burner died. I was told by SF that Vegas would support the new fast drives and do everything that CDA did. NOT TRUE. At this time , Vegas does not fully support the Plextor 16/10/40A IDE drive. It will only burn at 6X. IF SF fixes this problem I will be happy because I will still be able to use CDA and burn them in Vegas. (Or maybe I'll just use Vegas) For now I am using CDPBurn, which works just fine except for making multiple copies.

faderboy wrote on 1/30/2002, 9:20 PM

What Sonic Foundry Owes Us IS:

A discount toward the purchase of Vegas Video 3.0 for those of us who purchased CDA.

After having spent thousands of dollars on SF products such as Forge, ACID, CDA and Noise Reduction, they hosed me on the discontinuation of CDA only to bring it back in a VIDEO product. I am still so angry at SF over this that I am reluctant to pay over $500 for a product whose features have no use to me ouside of the features that CDA had.

At the very least, they could have included it as part of Vegas Audio. Since my needs require integrated MIDI and Audio I use Logic Audio for multitrack work. Vegas Audio's lack of Midi and horrendous timecode performance are what kept me from buying it before, but if SF would exonerate itself by including CDA technology into it I might reconsider giving them my money.

yorktr wrote on 2/7/2002, 3:08 PM

Kind of sweating potential bullets here. I, like many others, still rely on CD Architect for its track-markers-without-the-2-second-gap capability. It appears that I'll be required to keep a SCSI burner to keep it working. From what I've read here, it appears that the fast SCSI's will still work, albeit at a lower speed. I can live with that as long as it still works. I was very happy to find out that I could burn a 79:30 file on an 80 minute blank with CDA. There is just a warning message to disregard. CDA is crucial to my technique of "rebuilding" live concerts into one massive wav file with tasteful Sound Forge crossfades, and then using CDA to add the track markers.
The first poster on this thread made some very well thought out recommendations for Sonic Foundry to (at least) prepare one more upgrade for CDA. I sincerely hope they do; certainly would seem to be unwise for them to let go of such a versatile product with such a loyal following.
If I was Sonic Foundry, I'd take a second serious look at ditching this fine product. Certainly, I would look at licensing a third party to continue supporting CDA.

hstokar wrote on 2/12/2002, 2:44 PM

I totally agree. SF folks claim that architect CAn work with files creadted in S Forge 5.0. This has not been the case for me. I have wasted many blank CDR's!

BrentA wrote on 2/12/2002, 5:37 PM

I haven't had any problems using .WAV files saved in SF5.0 with CDA/SF4.5. Which versions are you running? I'm running SF5.0e, SF4.5d, CDA4.0g.

JoeD wrote on 2/13/2002, 1:45 PM

The thread below follows along these lines. Please see the link below and provide your two cents (without any profanity/cussing btw).

Maybe marketing will get a shot in the arm over this AT LEAST. Sadly though...I think were forced into VV3 - yes just for CDarch burning. I too have invested what I think is enough in the vegas/VA2/cdarch/sf5 line...I think providing a minor AUDIO update would have done wonders for SF's respect factor (read: future clients who purchase)

Positives? - I did compare VV3 to other like products and it is, to me, the better video editor.

Try and avoid some of the MOST INANE responses I've ever read from the goofballs (you'll know who they are).

Let SF (actually - SF marketing) know how you feel. Even if it is AGAIN.

JoeD

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=91167&Replies=42&Page=1

RevF wrote on 2/13/2002, 5:21 PM

I bought VV3 for the CDA capability. Guess what? - Hosed again!
Note that CDA in VV3 will not support the latest Plextor drives. My 24speed is still sitting idle after three months due to the lack of an update. ie - Unless SoFo update CDA in VV3 for new drives - We are no better off with VV3.
If CDA had been marketed at $100 it would have become the industry and consumer Std, instead of the industry's best kept secret.
The Steinberg product - does it do the same cross-fades etc?

wvg wrote on 2/15/2002, 10:17 AM

Joey D, you're even a bigger A hole then I thought. For those that don't know me I post a lot in the Vegas and Video Factory forums. Seems JoeD is really pissed over CD Architect and is fond of calling me moron and other juvenile taunts. Hey, I could care less, just a reflection on Joey's immaturity.

Only reason I'm posting here is it seems obvious many whining about CDA don't have a clue about the software biz or what if anything a software company owes you. I'm going to try to keep this short, so let me answer the question. When you buy any software, what you're really buying is a license to use the application as set forth in the license agreement. In simple language you are buying the software "as is" and that means the developer has no obligation whatsoever to keep adding features to the application, see that newer hardware is supported, transfer features from one application to another, give away intercultural property rights to third parties, share source code with competitors, see that it works in every version of Windows released or to be released or do anything else even remotely close to what some of you are suggesting or even demanding.

Now you may not like the fact that all of CDA's features are not included in Vegas Video 3 and I'm sure some of the more diehard "musicians" hold their nose at the mere mention of a video editor, but guys... wake up. Stop playing with your synthesizer long enough to see Joe Public has discovered multimedia and video editing. Its a hot market and the future. It makes sense for SoFo and others to target that rapidly growing audience. Further if you would stop jumping up and down for a minute a lot of the features in CDA and new ones are included in VV3. No, not everything, but nobody gets everything they want. If you do want some of the things, then likely you're going to have to pay for them. That's life.

Surprise, software companies are in business to make money. How many musicians here give away all their work for free? Lets see a show of hands. That's what I thought, none of you. So why then do you expect a sofware company to give away new features or go on supporting hardware you may have happened to just have purchased? What's insulting is I'll wager a good number of musicians get their software via the warez method, to be blunt some of you steal it! No, not all of you, but I'll bet anything some of you and likely some of the ones making all the noise are the most guility and have tons of warez on their computers right now.

Now I'm sure I made new "friends" here by telling you how others see you. I could care less. If any of your learn anything from reading this it should be that spitting into the wind isn't very smart. Trying to tell a software company how to market their products is like a patient telling the surgeon how to perform the surgery. Only stupid people would even consider such things. Will SoFo lose some customers? Of course. I'm sure that was factored into any business decision SoFo made. So those that seem to enjoy threatening they are going to use product X, so go ahead already. Jumping up and down, screaming and making demands isn't going to change SoFo's marketing and development plans. However if some insist on acting up I may find it amusing to give you another verbal spanking. So kiddies, TRY to act adult. Just try OK?

Ted_H wrote on 2/18/2002, 4:47 PM

The Vegas Video 3.0 update is coming.

Ted

WayToBlue wrote on 2/21/2002, 12:49 PM

What a delightful verbal spanking, trouble is it doesn't really have anything to do with anything. Let's analyze it by paragraph shall we?

First Paragraph: Remarks on peoples immaturity, no comment.

Second: The legal responsibilities of sonic foundry (or indeed most any software maker). However, no one here has mentioned taking legal action, or said or even implied that what sonic foundry has done is illegal; which makes this whole paragraph, well, pointless. We already know they have no legal liability here.

Third: "Video [is] . . . a hot market . . . [and is] the future." Completely true, but also completely true is that regular audio CDs are the highest selling media out there right now, and right now is what puts food on the table. Personally, i don't have much of a problem buying VV3 for the cda functionality, but $500 is pretty steep considering most of us won't be using any of the video features. I mean, just having software that supports video doesn't mean you're instantly ready to be a video production unit, there's an extremely large overhead involved in professional video, much greater than even audio. It would make sense for the CDA functionality to be included in vegas audio too wouldn't it? Of course it would.

Fourth: An extremely poor analogy. First off, lots of muscians give away their work for free, happens all the time. Go to mp3.com, you'll find thousands and thousands of hours of music for free. Some do this with the hope that people will buy their CD, some just do it because they like to make music, and they want people to hear it. But what's worse is that it was an analogy to software, which has 100 times more free work than music. Freeware is everywhere, for every OS, for every possible application. Linux is a completely free OS, as is the incredible array of software that comes with it. Free software is rampant. Sonic Foundry is in the business to make money, we certainly don't begrudge them that, but to imply that we have no business expecting support is ludicrous. A business, any business, wants their customers to be happy. As a result, companies provide patches and updates to their products, sonic foundry has the sf5.0F update availavble right now, free for download, because it improves their product, which it turn pleases their customers and makes their company look good, it's the universal software model. Lastly the piracy issue, some people certainly do steal software, some don't; doesn't really matter either way. We're talking about SF's poor handling of their product, doesn't matter if i've never even used it, i can still say that the way they've handled this was extremely poor. I've never owned an IBM PC Jr., but i can still say IBM dropped the ball on it.

Five: "Trying to tell a software company how to market their products is like a patient telling the surgeon how to perform the surgery." Again, a poor analogy. Trying to tell a software company how to write the code for their products is like a patient telling a surgeon how to perform surgery. Telling a software company how to market their product is more akin to a patient telling a surgeon what procedures to offer. Hardly a ridiculous prospect. "Jumping up and down, screaming and making demands isn't going to change SoFo's marketing and development plans." Well, actually it probly will. It may not get CDA back or get whatever people want, but this is how most software companies get their ideas for new products and new features. The people ask for something, the company sees a demand, they create a product to meet that demand, that's Econ 101; so it's certainly not a pointless thing to make yourself heard.

Well it's been fun wvg, i sure enjoyed our time together, but i have a spelling test after recess that i must study for. Until next time, enjoy your ignorance, i hear that it's bliss.

colinu wrote on 2/25/2002, 9:49 AM

From what I have seen it did make sense for Sonic Foundry to put CD-Architect in Vegas. The ability to do crossfades is native to Vegas, not Sound Forge. They are offering a good promotional price on Vegas - I just can't justify buying it at this time, as I barely use Sound Forge.

I did try the Vegas 3 demo when it was out, it seemed to work reasonably well. The one feature I would have liked to have seen was a "GoTo" option. Let me clarify: You could click on a button, and the playback head would start playing from the start of the next (or previous) region, track, whatever.

As for some CD Writers being incompatible, I recently replaced my machine, and had a bugger of a time getting software from another company (Ro___)to work with the Sony CRX160 that came with the unit. Sony had different versions of the same model, each manufactured in a different country, with totally different firmware and design differences. It would probably be quite difficult to write drivers for this sort of thing.

JoeD wrote on 2/26/2002, 2:37 PM

[contents of this post deleted by Sonicepm]

kdanenberg wrote on 2/26/2002, 7:20 PM

Entertaining discourse.

I'm sure if SF didn't want to hear from it's customers, this CDA forum wouldn't exist. What they do with this feedback, however, is out of my control.

Meanwhile, I'm stuck mastering in Roxio. Ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha!

Keep making noise!

Kevin

JoeD wrote on 2/28/2002, 2:05 PM

Hmmm...

I didn't use profanity in that reply (is "putz" a bad word?). Wonder why it was deleted?

Basically, in a nutshell, simply ignore WVG (or use "ignore user" button - best thing on this forum).

JoeD