looks like you can't.

the "new and improved" generator does not have the precision to get to RGB 16.

if you try 0.07 its RGB17, 0.06 its RGB15. if you try something like 0.064 (adding a number) it goes to RGB16, but the values won't be "saved", nor if you try to save a template.

and if you put a 000 black, and add the "Computer RGB to Studio RGB" you wil get RGB15, not 16.

nice improvement sony. that's why sometimes i don't like radical changes. sometimes they are for the worst. even for a simple RGB color generator.

That's crazy. I think most of us agree the black and white should default to 16 and 235 anyway!

Some possible workarounds:
- Apply a color curve as found in Glenn Chan's tutorial.
- "Computer RGB to Studio RGB" preset in "Color Corrector"
- "(Legacy Plug-in) Broadcast Colors" (if it's still there in 11)

Here's one way to do this for the "math challenged".

1) Drag 2 "Solid Color White" Generated Events to the time line.
2) In the first event apply the Sony Levels cRGB->sRGB template
3) Leave the timeline cursor on the first event (so it shows in the preview window)
4) Click on the "Generated Media for the second event"
5) Switch the RGB profile (optional)
6) Use the eyedropper to click in your preview window (which displays the first event & displays as "0.92, 0.92 ,0.92, 1.0").
7) Save the preset as "White 235" (or whatever makes sense to you)
8) Repeat for Black.

...Jerry

Using 0.92 for 235 white and 0.06 for 16 black seems ok.
Looking at the RGB parade scope, the levels look correct. But i do find if the have the RGB parade window too small like when its docked, the values shown using the cursor line are off by 1. So 16 looks like 15 and 235 looks like 234. Making the scope larger shows it correct. So thats just a resolution thing.
Are you guys using the RGB parade scope to measure levels or a more precise way?

[edit] no, not close enough on closer inspection.

Paul.

"Are you guys using the RGB parade scope to measure levels or a more precise way?"

Waveform.

Here's an intersting thing, there's a 32bit float version of the media generator and you can still only enter values to 2 decimal places.

Bob.

Nick Hope;

the color corrector in v11 does not have anymore the pc > studio and studio > pc templates. (pc > studio: gain 0.860, offset 15.900)

vegas gone from "the easiest to use" to "hard to generate a rgb 16 black" ;P

Hm, i take it back, on closer inspection yes its out.
But using a value of 0.927 for 235 white - then SAVE, it does recall that value but only displays 0.93. So its being rounded up in the plugin display but the actual level generated looks correct.
For 16 black, 0.07 seems closest, resulting in 16.
Again making the scope display large enough helps.
Bob, on the waveform thats 6% and 92%, is that correct?

And just as a test:
Place 2 solid whites on the TL.
Set one to 0.93 and save as something, set the other white as 0.927 and save.
Clear the timeline
Place the two saved solid whites back on the timeline.
Scopes show these are different levels
But inspect their values, both show 0.93

Its just the display. We need another digit.

Paul.

Malowz,

Yeah that was my feeling. I could not close, but not right on according to the scopes.

Thanks
Dave T2

Jerry,

I will give that a try.

Dave T2

For me, when I put the cursor on the 16 line in the histogram it always shows "15" in yellow the top right hand corner.

I use all 4 scopes in combination with each other. I have them on an old 17" monitor that sits above my dual 24" monitors. I recommend you get used to using all of them, because each gives you info that the others can't, or presents info more clearly.

The figures in the old "Computer RGB to Studio RGB" levels preset are 0.063 and 0.922.

A great way to assess this stuff, and to tweak color curves, is to put musicvid's grayscale on the timeline and use the Waveform, blown up really large.

Paul, go into your "Video Scopes Settings" and change it to "Studio RGB (16 to 235)". Then you can just go by 0 and 100% on the waveform instead of approximating to 6 and 92%.

Want to make Solid Color Generator presets?

Use the old (now called Legacy) Text Generator. Select a fat font and then set the color to 16,16,16. Use the color picker in the color generator to pick black from the letter and save as a preset.

Repeat for White 235.

Al least that one, or the ProType Titler (even with its strange non picker color interface) can do that. (New Blue with all its faults also still allows 0 - 255 color entries)

Willem.

Aha, maybe a better way to use the procedure I oulined above, is to use musicvid's grayscale as the color source, then use the eyedropper to click on whatever band you desire, then save as a custom preset.

...Jerry

thanks Nick, now showing 0% to 100% for 16-235. Im still learning.

So for 235 i get 0.922 and for 16 i get 0.063.
Thats using the waveform scope, full screen.
Saved as presets Black16 and White235.

Paul.

It shouldn't be this hard. Why would they change this. This is not even standard for any video app or photo app.

Dave T2

Agreed, and we should be at least be able to see the third decimal place.!

Paul.

File a bug report guys! I can't really cuz I haven't got 11.

The correct values are .063 and .922 for RGB 16,235, no ambiguation.
So if Sony hasn't provided a third significant digit in the new version, they are wrong.
Why they changed from human-friendly RGB numbers is a mystery.
Yes, file bug reports, but be nice.
;?)

I wonder whether this might be part of the OFX standard? Every OFX FX I have (Sony & Third Party) does it's color picking in the same manner, i.e. to 2 decimal places.



Anyone have any other software (e.g. FCP) that uses OFX plugins that might see if it's the same there?

...Jerry

"So if Sony hasn't provided a third significant digit in the new version, they are wrong."

As I pointed out above it gets worse as there's a 32bit float variant and even a third significant digit would not be enough to accurately define a color in a 10bit space.


Another thing. By some wonder of coding V11 has picked up my presets for Legal Black and Legal White from V10. That would be great except they produce different results e.g. Legal Black gives -1% instead of 0% as it does in V10 according to the waveform monitor.

In V11 the HSL values for Legal Black from my V10 Preset are 16, 0, 0.06, the hue value of 16 is a tad alarming but from my research when Saturation = 0 the Hue value can be defined as anything.

Bob.

Bob,

It seems to me that in the process, the waveform has lost some of its accuracy as well. I guess there must be a few rounding errors.

I did not have 10 on this computer, so there were no presets to pick up.

Dave T2

Still can't get a repeatable Legal 7.5 black. If I use the Legacy Text Generator set for 16,16,16, I get a nice 7.5 black. If I color pick it and save it as a preset in the Solid Color Generator and recall it, it is off a bit. Maybe 1% or less.

If i use the Legal limiter within Vegas, it is still off a bit.

Any other ideas?

I finally got one that seems to stick. I don't think it was overwriting a preset that I had made earlier that was wrong. Had to give it a new name.
Dave T2

Remember that there is a 1-bit downshift after render as compared to the timeline on the scopes. Maybe that's what you're seeing.